The GUS Daily Digest Sunday, 7 January 1996 Volume 27 : Number 005 Today's Topics: Re: The GUS Daily Digest V27 #2 Re: The GUS Daily Digest V27 #4 GUS Pnp Libraries Re: GUS Win95 Drivers Working? [none] Connecting a cd drive to GUS classic Re: The GUS Win95 drivers GUS PnP & NMI Re: Choppy sound GUS PnP... that's the Interwave? Standard Info: - Meta-info about the GUS can be found at the end of the Digest. - Before you ask a question, please READ THE FAQ. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GUI TERENCE ANG Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:55:24 -0500 Subject: Re: The GUS Daily Digest V27 #2 There seems to be much complaints about GUS' problems with a great many games. I would just like to point out that just because something does not work in a certain computer, does not mean that it will not work at all for everyone. Granted that GUS compatibility is much to be desired, this still does not mean that people should cry foul the instant something does not function perfectly. For example, some people may have audio problems with the DIG (I use this example cause I actually have the game), whereas I have had no problems with it whatsoever. I've heard maybe a single crackle while playing it from start to finish. I myself have experienced problems with it (ie. UAKM), but other people have had more successes with it. While I'm sure that when someone posts a problem a game, the problem actually exists, let's not go overboard and assume that everyone else is experienceing the same thing. ------------------------------ From: zsazS Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:22:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: The GUS Daily Digest V27 #4 Excuse the REALLY REALLY CRAPPY quoting in this leng article. On Sat, 6 Jan 1996 owner-gus-general-digest@apollo.COSC.GOV wrote: Someone said: > > Also, I bought a special-order cable to go from my CD-ROM to my > > GUS, but I have no idea if I have to tell either the GUS > > or the CD-ROM drive to use this to communicate sound (as opposed > > to using IDE, I presume). Do I need to do anything more here > > to use this cable? Is it likely to help anything? > > If you have an UltraSound Classic, you shouldn't have to do anything, as there > is no way to either turn on or off the CD-in on a GUS. Try playing a music > CD and you should hear sound through the soundcard. I think the GUS MAX has > a way to adjust this, but I don't know as I don't own on. For you info, sound > data doesn't go through the IDE interface at all. Only some SCSI drives will > do that... The Ultrasound Classic DOES have the ability to enable/disable the CDROM audio in, set the volume of it, along with the GF1 synth. It's possible due to the handy dandy program, ULTRAMIX. Just run it like: c:\ultrasnd>gusmix -h And it will tell you how to use it. I use this program all the time to turn on/off the line in, as I often play music through it. AFAIK it only works on rev 3.x GUSes, all MAXes, and the ACE. > > Finally, is there a way I can find out the rev of my GUS board? > > From the driver, or is it stamped on the card? From the date > > of purchase (probably 3/93 -4/93) maybe someone knows offhand. Sounds like you have a rev 2.x card, which ULTRAMIX won't work with. Make sure the connector is right! The 4 pin connector is LGGR and the 3 pin is LGR, L being left, G being ground, and R being right. If it's reversed, just flip the connector around. > ------------------------------ > > From: Eugen_Woiwod@mindlink.bc.ca (Eugen Woiwod) > Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 09:29:13 -0800 > Subject: GUS and games > Then whoever made StoneKeep, that show's right there that thier sound code > man ACTUALLY knew how to program a GUS properly, and THAT'S a RARE thing > nowaday's with the big game companies :-) Right on. What's their email address? I want to send them a nice email congratulating them that they can actually CODE :) > Then obviousely Apogee is using software SFX and music mixing for the GUS, > not realizing they could use the hardware(GUS) to do it instead. Make's me > wonder if sound code programmer's for big companies like APogee really know > what the hell they are doing nowaday's. Yeah. Ditto for their Terminal Velocity, it uses software mixing to play MODS! MODs/S3Ms/XMs are what the GUS does the VERY BEST out of any kind of music format!! Sheesh. Lazy coders. > Dark Forces: a warning saying GUS owners may experience > performance penalties due to the way our sound code programmer can't > figure out how to use the GUS properly. > > The Dig: Decreased performance and garbled audio using a GUS > > because of the way it interacts with the CPU. > > Again, Lucasart's can't seem to figure out, GEE, WE CAN actually use the > GUS ITSELF to mix the music and SFX instead of having the game do it, > sheesh. Anyone have programming information on the GUS so I can shove it in > Lucasart's face??? :-) Right-o. What's Lucasart's mail address? I'm going to mailbomb them with 239428 copies of the GUS SDK :) > Hey the GUS CAN be good for games, it's just that the companies need to > realize that the GUS is not yet another SB cheapo card that need's software > SFX and music mixing, since, like I said, it can be done via hardware(GUS) > itself :-) Someone should tell THAT to Apogee and Lucasart's. It's great to hear a voice of reason on this list!! > > The GUS is a good card to use if you're a heavy midi/user composer, but > > if you're still using a GUS for games, you got a hole in your head. > > > No, you need to put a hole in the sound dork's head at ID, Apogee and > Lucasart's Which is what I plan to do. Where are these email addresses again? :) > Hey I bet the smaller guy's who make game's for shareware probably program > the GUS a HELL of a lot better then the big guy's, Apogee, Epic, ID, > Lucasart's, etc. This is all too entirely true. I'm an avid fan of the demoscene. In this, almost every production is put out with GUS support. Not just GUS support, but PERFECT GUS SUPPORT!! And these people are programming these demos for FREE! They get *NO* money for them whatsoever (unless they win a competition, and then the prizes aren't to die for). They say that programming for the GUS is EASIER than for other cards! And here are the money-grubbing game companies complaining that the GUS is hard to code for? What gives? Do the game people really have holes in their heads? > From: Sam > Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:21:25 +0000 (GMT) > Subject: GUS Win95 drivers - wow! They work! > > Well, just got back to the net again... and a few weeks ago we got the > Gus Win95 drivers. Aren't they great! Worked absolutely beautifully first > time. All the example videos play pretty close to perfectly now, and this > is on a dx-33... they work much better than the 3.1 drivers ever did. Not in my case, unfortunately. I installed the drivers onto a computer with a perfectly happy couple living together in it: a GUS ACE and an SB16. I followed the instructions, yadda yadda yadda, etc. When Windows restarted, a menu popped up saying: "Could not initialize the the GUS due to a DRAM failure" or something to that extent. I went into the control panel and looked at the settings. Wow, they matched. What the hell is the problem? I tried re-installing and re-reading the readme file that came with it 3 times, each with the same results. Bleh. Any help?? :) Someone else also said: > It's true that Cubic Player v1.6 works in Win95 (in full screen > mode). I just start the dos box and run CP from there. There is one > drawback however - after you quit CP and return to Win95 you'll have > trouble with playing samples. Scream Tracker 3 also works. > > M.S. > > From: Daniel James Hull > Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:05:23 +0000 (GMT) > Subject: GUS and the CPU > > I have seen a host of messages about the GUS and its use of the CPU. > Could someone please clarify what the truth is. Some people say the gus > only uses a small percentage of the CPU time, and others think it hogs > the CPU. Some games companies even claim it hogs the CPU. As a > programmer myself, I was considering learning to program the GUS card, > but first I would like to hear the truth about this. The truth is: The game programmers don't know how to properly code for the GUS. They don't know about it's easy-as-pie hardware mixing that is easier than coding mixing routines, sounds better, and uses almost nil in the way of CPU time. But no. They use their same old crappy SB software mixing routines, and implement the VERY kludgy way of playing straight streamed audio to the GUS (which uses more CPU time than playing similar audio on an SB). COME ON. Use your brains, game coders! In no way does the GUS, when programmed PROPERLY, hogs the CPU. > Please respond to my uni account at cs94djh@brunel.ac.uk oops, sorry mate. > From: "LaLa (Imre Olajos, Jr.)" > Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:32:17 -0600 > Subject: GUS PnP saga (long!) > > HEEEELP! Your article brought a tear to my eye. I am deeply saddened. *sigh*. Rest in peace, Gravis. - --- \o_ o , /< zsazs/green grapes - kfpeters@artsci.wustl.edu // woof ------------------------------ From: Ted Ching Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:10:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: GUS Pnp wow. i didn't even know the GUS PnP was out yet. where did you get it? when did it come out? how much did it cost? anyway, i have a few more questions: 1) What is in the 1 MB of ROM? Are they the original Gravis patches or new ones? Do they sound better? 2) When you load samples into the RAM, are they automatically compressed? 3) Did it ship with Win95 drivers? 4) Does it still use MEGAEM for General MIDI & soundblaster in PnP mode? 5) How do you think it compares to the SB32? thanks ------------------------------ From: Mike Coates Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 12:09:36 +0000 Subject: Libraries The problem with newer games is that they use AIL or HMI drivers to simplify the music and effects programming. These supply a standard set of API calls which are common across all of the supported sound cards. Unfortunately, the drivers for the GUS in these packs need to do a lot of work to repackage the samples (particulary stereo) in a form that the GUS can use. (hence the CPU usage!) Fortunately music doesn't seem to be affected by this, and does usually load patches directly to the card! I found that the best solution was to fit an SB16 alongside the Gravis and use that for digital effects, leaving the GUS for the soundtracks Mike Coates mike@dissfulfils.co.uk ------------------------------ From: Sam Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 14:35:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: GUS Win95 Drivers Working? On Sat, 6 Jan 1996, Albert Law wrote: > Everybody on the Digest has been complaining of the various > problems they encountered with the new drivers. What GUS > version do you have? > 2.4, I think. (2. something for sure) We haven't exactly exhaustively tested it, but so far, MIDI playback works fine (through the card, haven't tried the interface joystick port since we have an MPU-401 already), WAV playback works fine (no clicks) including the system sounds, videos work fine - no choppy or glitchy sounds, and all the software we've tried has worked fine (mostly just software with little sound effects when you click buttons and so on, but we also tried Hover. Ran too slow but the sound did work with no problems). The old 3.1 drivers hardly worked at all under 95 (MID worked, the MIDI OUT worked, MIDI IN didn't, WAV didn't). And so far absolutely nothing that SHOULD have worked has failed with these new drivers. (Bearing in mind that DOS-box support isn't supposed to be included in this driver, but should come with the next version, we haven't tried that...) I'm actually at university and the sound card is on my dad's machine at home. But I'm sure they'll email me complaining if there are any problems :) We installed the drivers just after a "refresh" of win95, because it was crashing badly beforehand (had just started doing it, no idea why.) So we removed the old GUS drivers completely from system.ini etc before refreshing the system (which you do by running setup again and telling it to re-copy all the files) and installed the new drivers afterwards, no problems. In other words we had a clean setup before installing them (no old drivers), maybe that helped. I can't tell you about any specifics of how we installed them since my brother did it, but I don't think he experienced any major problems. The only thing I can suggest, therefore, to those who are apparently having problems, is to make sure the old GUS drivers are completely deleted from all the system files before installing the new drivers. Hope this helps someone... Sam >> homepage * http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d405ua/ * fiction, art, links and... >> s0ftware f0rge programs * entertainment : MIDI utilities * Win 3.1/95 >> latest feature * iNETRiS 2.0 internet tetris release! * req. Win 3.1+ ------------------------------ From: Erling Paulsen Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:15:45 +0100 Subject: [none] Hello fellow GUS'ers! I got the win95 driver as soon as it hit the website, and I think it works great. I don't know my revision, but it's a good old classic. (the install disks then were v1.21) I just got to say that I'm a hard core fan of the GUS and that I has never gotten so far as to rip it out, even though in the early beginning I was tempted to do so. Back then I had a SB-Pro and ever since they have worked side by side in harmony, until now when I sold my SB. The big old clumsy red GUS card has just gotten like something I just don't wanna part with after all the fiddling and trouble we're been through before there was ne support - but made it clear and rose to perfection together. OKI, let me get to tha point. There's a lot of people been flaming the GUS lately, but I sincerily think the SW companies are the ones to flame. Making one universal SW-mixing code for their products and then just modifying it a bit for each soundcard. They actually, used to be better, but now it seems this is the general thing to do. For the GUS this is very unfortunate, as the GUS was designed for doing HW mixing on it own, and offcourse no company whatsoever will spare a minute (and earn more money from happy GUS'ers) by letting their sound-code-driver programmer earn his salary by actually doing some programming. There is actually a reason for the GUS beeing the #1 soundcard on the DEMO scene. (and that is a huge #1) In this scene, you want as much as possible CPU time for other effects than sound, and how handy that is - when u program the gus correctly (and its easy too) u get a MAX CPU usage of about 2% for huge multichannel music compisitions doing 16bit and 44KHz. The GUS is great, the companies is LAZY. And when they claim games get downgraded performance because of the way the GUS interracts with the CPU, they couldn't be more coward in hiding their own sloppyness. Hey!, sloppy companies - give REAL programmers a job - give me an e-mail.. I LIKE GOOD GAMES, but I hate bad quality, and that is def. not the GUS. And YOU companies know who it is!!! Learn to program or read gravis howto's. You #*%&"*# bastards. To se the effect live, of the CPU usage of the GUS, simply get the shareware version of MOD4WIN, the music mudule player for windows. Play a huge multachannel music file with loadsa effects, in GUS native mode it uses about 1% CPU, then switch to windows WAVE-OUT SW mixer and watch the CPU bar climb to 50% on the same task. Thatsall folks! I really needed to blow some. :) - --- - -|This is a fancy smancy sig|- ------------------------------ From: John Patrick Lestrade Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 11:17:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: Connecting a cd drive to GUS classic the connector on the cable from my cdrom drive has holes that are apparently too small to fit onto the 4 pins on the GUS card. Anyone else have this problem? Is there an easy fix? thanks - -- John Patrick Lestrade | Lestrade@batse.msfc.nasa.gov | Lestrade@cesr.cnes.fr | ------------------------------ From: Will Dormann Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:06:25 -0500 Subject: Re: The GUS Win95 drivers >Once there was the horrendous blue screen "vxd protection" and such. I tried >to make it happen again but couldn't. this is strange, I think 95 are not >*that* stable... I'd think it's the GUS driver. (although, I do admit Win95 itself isn't perfectly stable). When playing MIDI files, I get VXD protection faults in gusdrv.vxd a LOT. It'll crash the whole system, and I have to reboot. That's the one reason I was looking forward to the Win95 drivers coming out. . . . less crashing. Boy, was I disappointed. (With Gravis's history, I should 've known!) It was as unstable as the Win 3.x drivers. In fact, the Win95 drivers don't seem like too much more than cosmetically enhanced 3.x drivers. I now have my screen saver sounds disabled, because if I let MIDI play, the system is bound to crash within 1/2 hour. Oh yeah, I was looking forward to getting rid of those d@mn .wav loops, too. Jeez! What was I thinking?!?! Of course they're still there. I too have been one of the most die-hard GUS owners, but I'm really starting to get annoyed. Yeah, I know, the driver is new. . . . I should wait until later versions come out. How long will it take until a stable driver comes out? Who knows? Just look how long it took for a piece of junk driver to come out. If the driver authors keep working on it, maybe they'll get it right by the time everybody's running Windows NT 5.7. But no, why should AG waste their time writing a driver for my old GUS 2.2!? They've got better things to do. I used to plug the GUS all the time. "It's a great card for a great price". But now, I can't do it. On a hardware level, I do believe it is a good card. But what good is great hardware if it's not supported? (games, Windows, etc) It doesn't really matter if it's the fault of the sound driver's author, or if it's the fault of the sound card's design. What's the end result? A SOUND CARD WITH @#$&* SUPPORT! It's getting harder and harder to justify having a GUS. I'll demonstrate with some games. No wait, how am I going to find a game that supports the GUS as it was meant to!? Ok, listen to this MIDI file. Shoot! It crashed. Alright, check out this WAV file. Listen to the 16-bit stereo sound. DOH! Another endless loop. I know, I've got this demo made by Future Crew about 4 years ago. Wow, that's cool. The GUS: An Excellent sound card with Horrible support! ------------------------------ From: Bruce White Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:07:23 -0330 (NST) Subject: GUS PnP & NMI Does anyone know if the PnP card needs that NMI doohicky? i can't use SBOS and p-mode Megaem because i have NO NMI doohicky. does anyone know? the gravis techs can't give me an answer or just will not. (rather rude really) so does anyone else know? thanks Bruce. ------------------------------ From: Stefan Divjak Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:19:38 +-100 Subject: Re: Choppy sound I encountered some problems running the Navigo CD-ROM 'A brief history of time' with the new Win95 drivers (choppy sound). After I reduced the playback-DMA buffer-size to 2048 bytes everything worked fine. I hope this will help somebody... ************************************************** * Stefan Divjak * * Graz University of Technology, Austria, Europe * ************************************************** ------------------------------ From: guardia@CAM.ORG (Samuel Audet) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 96 15:20:21 EST Subject: GUS PnP... that's the Interwave? A couple of months ago, I past all posts speaking of GUS PnP... PnP, what a crap man, total lost of time and unprofessional work. Recently, I wanted to know what is the GUS PnP exactly, doh! That's the GUS with the Interwave chip? bahaha! man, that sucks. I really hope Gravis dies and goes bankrupt, they really derserve it. What a pitty, a so good card (well, NOT the GUS PnP), but with no damn good drivers for anything, not even Windoze 3.1! ------------------------------ End of The GUS Daily Digest V27 #5 ********************************** To post to tomorrow's digest: To (un)subscribe or get help: To contact a human (last resort): FTP Sites Archive Directories --------- ------------------- Main N.American Site: ftp.orst.edu pub/packages/gravis wuarchive.wustl.edu systems/ibmpc/ultrasound Main Asian Site: nctuccca.edu.tw PC/ultrasound Main European Site: src.doc.ic.ac.uk packages/ultrasound ftp.pwr.wroc.pl pub/ultrasound Main Australian Site: ftp.mpx.com.au /ultrasound/general /ultrasound/submit South African Site: ftp.sun.ac.za /pub/packages/ultrasound Submissions: ftp.orst.edu pub/packages/gravis/submit Newly Validated Files: archive.epas.utoronto.ca pub/pc/ultrasound Mirrors: garbo.uwasa.fi mirror/ultrasound ftp.st.nepean.uws.edu.au pc/ultrasound ftp.luth.se pub/msdos/ultrasound Gopher Sites Menu directory ------------ -------------- Main Site: src.doc.ic.ac.uk packages/ultrasound WWW Pages --------- Main Site: http://www.xmission.com/~grue/gus.html Main European Site: http://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/ultrasound/ Main Australian Site: http://ftp.mpx.com.au/archive/ultrasound/general/ http://ftp.mpx.com.au/archive/ultrasound/submit/ http://ftp.mpx.com.au/gravis.html Mirrors: http://www.st.nepean.uws.edu.au/pub/pc/ultrasound/ GUS Digest Archives: http://gpu.srv.ualberta.ca/~itam/digest.html http://www.student.adelaide.edu.au/~godfathr/gus/gus.html MailServer For Archive Access: Email to Hints: - Get the FAQ from the FTP sites or the request server. - Mail to for info about other GUS related mailing lists (programmers, musicians, etc.).