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Category 75, Topic 17 Message 487 Wed Jun 26, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 12:38 EDT Check out the post in cat 26, topic 2. You have to read it to believe it. :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 488 Wed Jun 26, 1991 C.F.JOHNSON [CodeHead] at 12:40 EDT Nathan, I download ST Report _very_ infrequently; usually only to check to make sure he's printed one of our press releases accurately, or if there's some stupid overblown "controversy," to see what the latest furor is about. And I never post messages in either Znet's or ST Report's category. The reality is that ST Report does provide a means of valuable free publicity to developers. A lot of "ordinary" (meaning "non-developer") folks do read ST Report. Since there are very few other Atari magazines left at all, ST Report and Znet are quickly becoming the _last_ venues for reaching a large audience with a product announcement. That's _really_depressing_, but it's a fact. No, I don't think you're an idiot. But I also don't think anything or anyone is served by trying to hound Ralph into giving up ST Report, either, because 1) it won't work, and 2) as developers, we need the damned thing for publicity purposes. Insert big sigh here. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Opinion time: I think what we're seeing here is the Atari world eating itself, tail-first. Unfortunately, I believe some of the developers in the IAAD are partially responsible for this self-ingestion, too -- the recent trend on the part of some of our members to release "free" utilities is a disturbing part of it. I brought this up once before, and everyone said I was overreacting, but here it is again: Have you folks at Double Click (with your "programs of the week") and Gribnif (with your "Colaware") really thought about what you're doing to the market by releasing free programs on a regular basis? Recently, I've received a couple of Email letters saying essentially, "Why should I _pay_ for Funk Alert when I can just wait a few weeks for DC to release a free program that does the same thing?" (Now am I still overreacting?) By doing these free programs, you are: a) helping to destroy people's perception of software value. You're instilling the belief in the userbase that it's _easy_ to write these kinds of programs. From there, it's a short step to the conclusion that "hey, if it's that easy for DC, then all these other people must be ripping us off!" From my Email, some people have _already_ reached this conclusion. b) helping to destroy the last vestiges of the commercial market. See point A, above. c) also destroying the last vestiges of the ST shareware market. Far be it from me to tell anyone how to run their business. If you want to destroy the value of your own commercial software, that's your look-out. But when it starts affecting _my_ business (which it has), then I get mad. I hope you guys will give this some serious thought. I honestly believe that free programs that perform useful functions are helping to hasten The End. - Charles ------------ Category 75, To pic 17 Message 490 Wed Jun 26, 1991 WORDFLAIR [Lauren] at 21:05 EDT I think we've downloaded ST Report only 2 or 3 times. By all means use it as a press release vehicle. Just be careful talking to Ralph he is an absolute genius about asking leading questions. Never doubt his intelligence and tremendous desire to get a scoop/"dirt." Do give him product/company news. You dig your own grave with gossip or confidential info though. The whole nature of online "journalism" is to bring timely info. Seems like there are many more downloads when the info is controversial or negative. I'd bet more Enquirers, Stars, etc. type papers sell than the New York Times or Christian Science Monitor so muckraking is certainly not limited to on-line vehicles. But if downloads are his measure of success, looking at it from his view, he does better printing total bs if it's got a good "hook." Random thoughts.. Lauren ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 491 Wed Jun 26, 1991 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:15 EDT I *don't* regularly download ST Report. I don't even "belong" to his Cat. here on GEnie. Everytime I *do* end up reading one of his "Reports" I end up chastising myself for wasting the download time (except of course when he ran my press release! :-) I've never talked to Ralph on the phone and he's never tried to call me. I'm not even sure if he knows I'm an IAAD member (although if he's reading these messages I guess he would know.) I did get a few sales out of his publication, but his bashing of just about everything certainly doesn't do us any good. Hey Ralph, if you're reading this, lighten up, will ya? We're all here to see Atari succeed, aren't we? Sheese! John T. ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 49 2 Thu Jun 27, 1991 C.WALNUM1 [CLAY] at 00:34 EDT Nathan: I agree with Charles about ST Report. Fact is, my first sales of C-MANSHIP COMPLETE came from my press release in ST Report. I don't always agree with the way Ralph does things, but there's no doubt that thousands of people read him. These days we need all the publicity we can get. On the other hand, he sure knows how to push _your_ buttons! <GRIN> I for one vowed a while ago that I will no longer argue with Ralph in a public forum. We had some nasty rounds a while back, and I found it most embarrassing. Charles: As you undoubtedly know, most people think shareware programs are free, too. So that market is already destroyed. My new game DEMOLITION MAN is the #1 download on another system and has been doing great here on GEnie too--and I haven't seen one thin dime. Luckily, I didn't write it for the money. Lauren: I've heard that the NATIONAL ENQUIRER is the #1 selling newspaper in the U.S. No doubt, the other tabloids aren't far behind. ---Clay ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 493 Thu Jun 27, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 02:58 EDT The only time I read ST Report was to find the review of my product Ralph said he had published. He requested a OMNIMON Rainbow monitor for review purposes many months back and when I didn't hear from him, I looked all over for the article. I finally found a review of the OMNIMON Rainbow monitor but it was done by a customer who had bought the monitor a long time ago. The review was quite favorable but I suspect that not very many people read ST Report since I have not found a customer that has stated ST Report as where they hear about our product (questionaire in our warranty card.) Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 494 Thu Jun 27, 1991 CRAIG.S.THOM at 21:14 EDT I've only talked to Ralph on the phone once, and he did most of the talking. He used the F word a lot, too. ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 495 Thu Jun 27, 1991 D.THOMPSON66 [David @ JMG] at 21:14 EDT Nathan et al I've never read ST Report. When George was helping me set up Aladin he said to ignore that area! Hmmmm.... I wonder why? After listening to the arguments over the weekend I was pretty sure why! Anyways, my brief point in answering is that a customer walked into our retail store today and said that they had heard good things about HyperLINK in ST Report. Not knowing what the hell had been said, I find myself as a developer having to pay attention to it as a source for feedback. -djt ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 496 Thu Jun 27, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 22:33 EDT David, USE ST Report to spread the good word about your products. That's what justifies their existence. Same goes for ZNET and GEnie Lamp. Personally I made a mistake last week. I forgot that people like Ralph Mariano, Lloyd Pulley and Bill Ryal are best dealt with by ignoring them totally, to a point. Stay tuned. :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 497 Thu Jun 27, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 23:07 EDT Well, I for one would not want to see Ralph or ST Report disappear. For the exact same reasons many people don't want anything to happen to George Bush ;) Bye: Dr. Bob ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 498 Fri Jun 28, 1991 J.PIERSTORFF [J.PIERSTORFF] at 02:45 EDT I think it is to the credit of ST owners that so many will download ST Report and wade through so much drivel to try and glean any useful Atari related information. Obviously 300+ people find it worth trying every week. It is too bad that most people think Ralph's reporting is accurate. It is also sad that Ralph's ethics are so low that he would accept stolen transcripts of this private category. He must realize that if we wanted him to know what is said here he would be included! I believe that his doom & gloom reports have with time, and repeated exposure, seriously damaged the Atari market! His constant criticism of Atari warns users to "abandon ship!" get out while you can, andhave to read it to believe it. :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 509 Sat Jun 29, 1991 NEVIN-S at 01:11 EDT Nathan, that is a tough one. Part of me feels that you should call the person and if you feel the person is indeed passing on captures, lock him/her out of this cat. Part of me feels that without proof you should not do anything. Personally, I think when you ask the offender, he/she will not really deny it, but will say, "I just have a different opinion about the importance of confidentiality...." At that point, I would lock him/her out immediately. If he/she denies it, then you've got another tough situation. Also, if there is anything I can do to balance whatever BS is going with Ralph's apparent work against you and Darlah, let me know. --Nevin ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 510 Sat Jun 29, 1991 C.WALNUM1 [CLAY] at 01:39 EDT Nathan: I think it's a rotten shame that the messages here are getting sent where they don't belong. And whoever is doing it should be disallowed access to the topic--but _never_ based solely on suspicions. I think that would be the classic case of two wrongs trying to make a right. If people start getting tossed out of the IAAD for unsubstantiated reasons, it would look very bad for the organization. Now, if you're 99% sure... ---Clay ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 511 Sat Jun 29, 1991 J.ALLEN27 at 03:12 EDT If you're sure enough Nathan, use the axe. If you choose to make a public fight of it, you know you have my support. When Ralph called me yesterday morning he made some noise about Darlah, I made it clear he was taking on the wrong battle, this really is a case of Ralph's dead wrong and needs to cool his jets...or what will be will be. ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 512 Sat Jun 29, 1991 G.RICHARDSO1 [George] at 08:30 EDT I think that unless you've got enough evidence to be reasonably sure, locking someone out is just going to disrupt the IAAD again. I really think that it's Ralph who's the problem here and even catching whoever seems to be passing him info is not going to end it. He may just coax someone else into doing the same. I'd really like to see the IAAD take some action against Ralph though. The problem is that I get the feeling that this is exactly what Ralph wants. After the IAAD responds in any way, He'll claim that either we're ganging up on him or he must be getting close to the truth or we wouldn't bother. He'll certainly feel justified. George Richardson Merlin Group, Inc. ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Message 513 Sat Jun 29, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 10:31 EDT I have decided to place my objections to ST Report's tactics only in public where they can enlighten all users rather than in here where they are of use only to IAAD members -- and, oh, yes, you, too, Ralph. ------------ |
Category 75, Topic 17 Message 514 Sat Jun 29, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:17 EDT Mike, Please refrain from stating "you [CodeHead] made your decision to leave the Atari market", either here or in public! We have NEVER said this to _anyone_, either publicly or privately. I don't know where you got that idea. We have mentioned that we are examining other platforms, but we've always made it a point to say, in the same breath, that we will always continue to support our ST products. John P.S. Since you started your free-program policy, we've corrected people several times on our BBS who have said that Double Click Software is free. This seems to be a common symptom of your "irrevocable decision". <donning my kid gloves> ------------ Category 75, Topic 17 Category 75, Topic 17 Then again, as Nevin stated, I'm sure many of the
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