MEMORY LANE

Topic 2 Thu Oct 26, 1989
D.A.BRUMLEVE (Forwarded)
Sub: Will you sign in please?

A place for Professional Developers of the AAD to expose themselves...
<sleezy grin>
370 message(s) total.
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 351 Tue Jul 30, 1991
P.HELLINGER [helli] at 15:00 EDT

Hello, I'm the new one! My name is Peter Hellinger, from Hellinger Software
Entwicklung. As you see by the word "Entwicklung" (it means developement), I'm
from Germany. I work with computers nearly 15 years, starting with the
legendary TI-99 (anyone remember?), some CP/M-80 stuff, PC, XT, AT, and about
5 years ago, I bougth my first ST. And I've never been sorry for...

I developed some Modula-2 stuff for the ST: Some parts of the Megamax- Modula-
2 developing system (special parts of the editor), a compiler independent
library called MagicLib (hu, some of the Jefferson-M2 guys out there?), a high
level Library called MagicTools (features 'flying dials', menulines in
windows etc.). Many german applications use my Libraries (CAT, a frontend
mailbox programm like Aladdin for GEnie, TeXdraw etc.). In the last 3 years
(when I got time) I wrote together with Johannes Lecke- busch (from the old
68000'er magazine) an allround texteditor called GOLEM which means G)raphic
O)bject oriented L)anguage E)nvironment in M)odula. This autumn I will
redesign the Userinterface (GOLEMs own is horrible, believe me!) and
implement some of the new ideas I have got during the last 6 month working on
the MagicTools... So, any questions? Feel free to ask me anything... Peter
"Helli" Hellinger
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 352 Tue Jul 30, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:22 EDT

Willkommen in Cat 75, Helli!
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 353 Tue Jul 30, 1991
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 18:45 EDT

Howdy Peter! CP/M-80, huh? Jerry'll like your stuff :^)

Bye: Dr. Bob
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 354 Tue Jul 30, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 20:51 EDT

Welcome to our cat Helli. Please feel free to ask any questions your own self.
:-)
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 355 Tue Jul 30, 1991
DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:38 EDT

Well, I suppose I should jump in here before Nathan reminds me again!

My name is Chuck Steinman, and I have been programming on an Atari platform
for around 12 years now. As some of you no doubt know, I am one of the more
vocal 8-bit supporters, and have finally decided to 'officially' enter the ST
market.

I currently have developed product on/for the Atari-8, and MS-DOS machines,
including both hardware and software. I also have designed custom turnkey
systems from about $500 to $50,000 in cost using Intel, Motorola, Hitachi, and
Rockwell 4 to 32-bit processors. I primarily develop code in assembly, but
have started shifting to 'C' as allowed by the more powerful CPU's these days.
I have written a multi-tasking OS (4 user / 8-task) and DOS for use with one
of the Intel processors.

Current projects of intrest include a true ANSI C compiler for the 8-bit, and
a cross-compiler and cross-assembler for the ST and PC for a 6502 target. I
have several low level utilities (dealing with system diagnostics and
performance optimization) in the works for the ST, which I hope to introduce
in late '91 early '92.

Chuck
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 356 Tue Jul 30, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:41 EDT

Ahhhh, so that's what I am, when they called me an Entwickler I was wondering
if I was welcome back in Germany ;-) So my boards must be Entwicklee's? Gee if
the local authorities hear I've been Entwickling, I'll be joining PeeWee
Herman on A Current Affair ;-)
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 357 Wed Jul 31, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:34 EDT

Chuck has arrived!
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 358 Wed Jul 31, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:34 EDT

Peter and Chuck:

Welcome to the IAAD!


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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 359 Wed Jul 31, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 12:19 EDT

Good point Chuck. :-) Welcome.
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 360 Wed Jul 31, 1991
WORDFLAIR [Lauren] at 12:30 EDT

Hi and welcome. Lauren
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 361 Wed Jul 31, 1991
C.WALNUM1 [CLAY] at 21:49 EDT

Hi, Peter! And Chuck, too!

---Clay

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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 362 Wed Jul 31, 1991
T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 22:18 EDT

Peter and Chuck,

Greetings and welcome. You both sound like great additions to the membership!

ahh, what is your view on guns... no, don't answer that PLEASE! ;-)

Take care, Tyson Gill @ GT Software

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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 363 Wed Jul 31, 1991
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 23:58 EDT

Hi Chuck. 'Bout time you came in here :-)

Bye: Dr. Bob
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 364 Thu Aug 01, 1991
N.WEINRESS at 01:23 EDT

Welcome, Hilli and to Chuck!

Here's something to warm the cockels of your heart, Chuck. I am a gradualte of
the second class of the PPS-4 school, at Rockwell's facilities on Katella Ave.
(1973)

Norm
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 365 Thu Aug 01, 1991
MINDOVERMIDI at 06:09 EDT

Welcome aboard, folks.

- Darren :)

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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 366 Thu Aug 01, 1991
NEVIN-S at 22:34 EDT

Welome to both of you..!

--Nevin
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 367 Fri Aug 02, 1991
W.BUCKHOLDT at 07:22 EDT

Welcome to our group Peter and Chuck! I think you will find the people here
both interesting and highly intelligent.

Wayne
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 368 Fri Aug 02, 1991
DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 18:51 EDT

Well... thanks everyone! ::blush::

glad to officially be here, and I am sure it will be a great asset in my (many
expected) times of need. =-)

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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 369 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:01 EDT

Hello Helli.... or izzat .... naw

Hi Chuck (no name games with that one.....)

______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{)
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Category 75, Topic 2
Message 370 Tue Aug 06, 1991
P.HELLINGER [helli] at 15:06 EDT

Thanks for that great welcome to all!

Helli
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REPly ?
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Topic 7 Tue Oct 30, 1990
DOUBLE-CLICK (Forwarded)
Sub: Shows-Current Discussion: 16-bit Faire

Let's talk about this show Jan 4-6, 1990
498 message(s) total.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 443 Tue Jul 30, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:25 EDT

Mike Brown of LCACE (the users group that has held two successful small shows
in the recent past and is now helping Atari to put on the Chicago AtariFest)
uploaded the following message to Cat 11. As some of you might not frequent
that area, I'm listing it below:

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Category 11, Topic 10
Message 89 Mon Jul 29, 1991
M.BROWN56 [Mike Brown] at 20:07 EDT

Several people have asked me for an update on the show progress here's a
status report for you all- This past week, we received a letter from the
Ramada O'Hare hotel stating that our "word of mouth" reservation for the
Convention Center, ballrooms, meeting rooms, and reserved "tower" sleeping
rooms will run out on August 1st. A formal contract must be signed by that
date or the facilities will be made available to other groups, and all
outstanding sleeping room reservations will be cancelled (with no penalty to
those making the reservations). Atari management has stated that they will not
sign for the hotel until at least 50% of the floor space has been sold. As of
today, we have 7 exhibitors signed and paid on the main floor, and one in the
8-bit area. We would need to have about 4 times this number to meet Mr.
Tramiel's requirement. In our past shows, the majority of exhibitors sign up
within the last 30-60 days prior to a show; time is not on our side to get the
number of exhibitors required before August 1st. LCACE has spent a
considerable amount of time and money in the organizing and promotion of the
Chicago Computerfest by Atari, it is a shame that an event holding the
potential to rival the European Atari-specific shows in terms of attendance,
is withering on the vine. At this point, I, Bob and LCACE have done as much as
possible to assure that the Chicago Computerfest by Atari will be a success-
it is now up to the potential exhibitors and Atari management to determine
what the ultimate fate of the show will be. Mike \ LCACE
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Hey, I really want this show to happen! There has never been a major show in
this huge metropolitan area, one that really _does_ have Atari dealers (and
MIDI dealers, Darren). Sure, it's an easy drive for me, but it's a good
opportunity for everybody. I was really hoping it would be the biggest show
of the year in terms of attendance. The area has several users groups and
other major metro areas are within easy driving distance (Indy: 2 hours, my
house: 2 hours, Milwaukee: 1 hour, etc.). I didn't realize there was this kind
of deal with Atari until the post went up, or I would have said something in
here sooner.

PLEASE, if you do plan on attending the Chicago AtariFest, help Mike fill that
30,000 square feet with a GEMail commitment today! Thanks. Send mail to
M.BROWN56, a copy to Bob Brodie might be helpful. (BOB-BRODIE)
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 444 Tue Jul 30, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:14 EDT

I'm not about to send money to these folks when this is so tenous. And come on
"rivaling the European shows"...yeah right. They'll be lucky if 1,000 show up.

Sounds like Atari is being unrealistic...read ignorant...in regards to how the
developer community plans for and pays for shows. Maybe 50% by Oct ;-) But not
August 1st, no way. So cancel it, and stop wasting money promoting a dead
horse.

Sorry Dot, just my opinion.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 445 Tue Jul 30, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 03:47 EDT

Jim, don't send money. Just tell 'em if you are planning on it. I
did send money, by the way, and they haven't cashed the check.

The LCACE crew is not stupid, nor are they dishonest.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 446 Tue Jul 30, 1991
ICDINC at 09:48 EDT

I have to agree with Jim on this one. These guys are stupid if they think
they can rival any European Show in Chicago. There is potential for maybe
5,000 attendees but 1-2,000 is probably more realistic. We are supporting them
anyway.

If they are counting on support from Atari to make the show fly then they are
also ignorant. (CHange that "stupid" in the 1st line also to "ignorant".)
Hasn't Chicago cancelled show plans in the past because of Atari's lack of
commitment? Here we go again.

- TOM -

PS Ralph, Keep my comments here out of your Rag! (That is a warning)
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 447 Tue Jul 30, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 10:11 EDT

Tom, let's get one thing perfectly clear here. For that matter I guess it's
past time that we did. If Ralph ever posted anything from within cat 75 in his
mag or elsewhere in the board, GEnie themselves would take immediate action.
This is a fact of which he is aware but I'm sure in case he isn't, one of you
will go running to tell him. (sigh)

I agree with Tom, no surprise, 1-2000 people seems about right and maximum
possible *unless* Atari spends 6 figures advertising the event. :-) As far as
the August 1 note goes, whose jerking whose chain here. :-) Either Atari will
decide to do the show or they will decide to pass. The Aug. 1 deadline just
makes it imperative that they put up now or shut up now. The # of Dev's
committed is so much smoke and I will tell Atari that if I happen to be
speaking to them in the next few days. :-)
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 448 Tue Jul 30, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:31 EDT

As I understand it, this show (Chicago) was to be _different_ from your
typical user-group show. Atari had promised (Greg Pratt himself, I
understand) to pay for the upfront costs associated with the show.
Atari has in fact had a hand in the planning. I am aware that Greg
toured the proposed show facilities and gave his approval of them back
in the Spring. The user group volunteers are acting essentially as
front men for Atari; Atari is giving -- or as the case may be, not
giving -- the show. Atari has controlled most decisions re booth
pricing and stuff like that. It appears from Mike's post that Atari
had made its follow-through contingent upon early commitments from
a larger percentage of developers than is realistic. August is simply
too early for devs to be sending in money and signing on the dotted
line for a November show. I'll bet many of you who plan to attend
Glendale and WAACE have yet to sign up, and these shows preceed the
November show by more than a month. The user group is, by the way,
likely to put on a smaller event a la their previous fests (which were
quite good for that kind of thing) if Atari backs out.

Where did you see this thing about rivaling European shows? In my
discussions with Mike, it's been clear that he had in mind a MidWest
show drawing approximately as many as WAACE or Glendale, not Duesseldorf.
If the advertising were to be heavy (as once planned), it could do
better than that. There are a whole lotta users in this area.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 449 Tue Jul 30, 1991
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 18:55 EDT

I missed the Chicago show last year (much to John's chagrin, I'm sure :^)
but was looking forward to it this time around. The fact that Atari's
cooperation/non-cooperation is increased this year doesn't change my mind
at all..... well.... actually.... maybe I should skip it this year too if
they're going to pussyfoot around.

Does Mavis Beacon make a pencil-tutor ? Maybe we should send a copy of it
to our 'temulous trio' in Sunnyvale.

Bye: Dr. Bob

(this message not to be disclosed outside this catagory)
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 450 Tue Jul 30, 1991
J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 20:13 EDT

I've been holding out myself waiting to see when and if Atari commits. Unlike
Jim, I think they could be many more than 1000 folks at this show, if it's
done up right. But at $350/booth *I* have to make sure.

I've been talking with Mike about this over the past few months and he knows
and understands my feelings on this. In my opinion it's the old chicken and
egg thing. Atari doesn't want to commit before the developers commit, and
vice versa. The sad thing is that at the outset, it was promoted that Atari
was or already had put up $35,000 for the show. Then the truth came out.
Sigh...

This could be a very important show for all of us. But I still can't commit
until I know it's certain.

Just _another_ fine mess you've gotten us into Atari! Sheese!

>>> Indy Show...

Although sales were lower than I expected, I did enjoy this show. I did have
quite a few "interested" coupon takers, so all is not lost, I guess.

Probably the *best* part of the show was that I finally had the chance to meet
Dorothy! That was nice! :-) I'll never forget the first words out of
Dorothy's mouth when she walked over to my table..."Hi John, I see we've been
pinned!" (Ah...you see, we both had on those beautiful gold IAAD pins Nathan
made for us, and, uh...)

The *worst* part of the show was that Chet and Dr. Bob had standins at the
WizWorks booth, right across from mine. Shucks, I was looking forward to
meeting them!

John T.


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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 451 Tue Jul 30, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 20:55 EDT

If Atari commits to doing a proper show in Chicago, I am confident that the
Developer participation would be there, without a doubt. The rest is bullshit.

Thanks for the kind words re: the pins. Now if the rest of you would only buy
yours I wouldn't be losing $1,000.00 out of my pocket.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 452 Tue Jul 30, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 22:11 EDT

Nathan, tell Helli that membership is contingent upon purchase of a pin.
In fact, tell _everybody_ that. People will be beating down the door
to buy your pins.

John T. -- Don't be depressed about sales. Every show is different for
me. I've sold 60+ units, I've sold 1! I've enjoyed every show except
Anaheim, and I don't want to talk about Anaheim. ;-) And as for the
"stand-ins" in Chet's & Doc's booth, do you mean to tell me you blew
your chance to meet their cool roadies??? They are along most every
trip, even when Chet and Doc do participate.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 453 Tue Jul 30, 1991
DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:15 EDT

Well, here are my $.02 worth:

First, I don't think there was a mention of any contractual quota requirement
(or date) mentioned for the booths in the forms I saw (I could be wrong here,
I payed for mine some 2 months ago and haven't looked at it since). If the
date was as critical as implied here, there should have been a discount to
prompt people to send in early.

Second, unless the hotel has someone already lined up, I think they are kinda
pulling someone's chain, as I couldn't see anyone securing the site on such a
short notice (under 120 days) if they pulled the rug out on August 1. Anyone
who has been involved with such a large site knows what a pain it is to find a
site even a year in advance of a show date.

Last, from my experience at the smaller 1-day LCACE shows, I would expect in
the 1500-2000 range, maybe a bit higher, *IF* it were advertised (I do not
recall seeing any magazine ads for this show yet, which it is getting high
time for I would think).

(as I stand back and wait for the topic piranhas to chew my ***)

Chuck
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 454 Tue Jul 30, 1991
DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:41 EDT

BTW: how do I get one of these pins?
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 455 Tue Jul 30, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:53 EDT

The "rivaling" quote was from your post Dot...of their message. It's on line 4
or 5 of their stuff.

Maybe more people would show up, depends on just how healthy sales have been
for the dealers in the area...beats me. If LaLaLand pulls in 2-3Kilopersons,
then anywhere else in the US will be less. DC area will be second. At least
that's the way it's gonna be until there's an Atari sales revolution... ...and
snowball fights break out in hell ;-)

So what does this mean? Is Atari going to pay the money and count on us
showing up? OR Since we all haven't coughed up the dough already, chuck it all
down the dumper?
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 456 Wed Jul 31, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:37 EDT

Ok, Jim, my fault then. I think it would rival European shows in its
own small pond, but these things are relative. ;-)

Chuck, according to Mike, the hotel has no problem whatsoever attracting
a new contractee on just a couple month's notice.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 457 Wed Jul 31, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:45 EDT

According to Rehbock, we are supposed to send in our checks to Mike Brown but
he won't cash them until October(?). It really is silly for Atari not to sign
the contract. Big deal...so they sign a contract. What kind of trouble can
they get in? Sheesh. We need their commitment. They need our commitment.
But to commit, we have to spend money and they don't. Typical.

John
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 458 Wed Jul 31, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:34 EDT

I suggest those of you that plan to participate in the Chicago fest to write
to Mike Brown. I see the Chicago show as a tremendous oppurtunity to sell a
lot of stuff. Because of its intended show date, I expect it to be the biggest
money maker for vendors. If you are interested in making money, don't let this
chance pass you by. Oh yeah, I forgot, you folks aren't interested in money.
Otherwise, you wouldn't have choosen the Atari market. :^)

Paul Wu
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 459 Wed Jul 31, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 15:00 EDT

It's too close to WAACE, and COMDEX, I see it as a real curiousity that Atari
wants that timeframe.

And the potential shit weather...oh brother.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 460 Wed Jul 31, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:50 EDT

OK, here it is just three weeks before the Duesseldorf show and I've
got 7 large cartons of software in my livingroom looking for a place to
go. I finally ended up taking 100 or so copies of each program, a few
more of Kidpublisher Pro (already reviewed in Germany), in spite of
other recommendations on both ends of the spectrum. If I sell half of
these, the trip is paid for...unless of course shipping costs and
customs eat it all up.

It seems few people are in my position--I may be completely unique, I
don't know. Most people either: (a) have a German-based distributor
already who makes the copies there or (b) don't have a German-language
version yet and so are basically going to land a distributor and get
some PR or (c) don't take units in the first place. Well, I gotta
sell some units. I am hoping to land a distributor, but I've already
got three products in the right language and appropriately boxed, so
I'm ready to sell 'em.

So I hassled Bill Rehbock for two months to see if he could come up
with an easy way to get my stuff through customs ahead of me. He
couldn't or at least didn't. He did refer me to Art Morgan, whom I
contacted last week. Art knows plenty about getting German software
through US customs, but not the other way around. He referred me to
a customs broker, who is extremely expensive, but he also said I'd
be best off contacting Atari Germany directly.

So I sent a FAX Monday (they got it Tuesday morning) to Matthias Born
at Atari Germany with a cc: to a woman there who has already had to
deal with me. I put a heading at the top to alert them that I required
a speedy reply. (I suppose this means I go to the bottom of the pile.)
In any case, I still have not heard back. I am hoping they will say,
"Don't worry, address it to us and we'll see that you have the boxes
before the show," but since they have not yet said anything at all,
I'm nervous about it. I believe I will call them tomorrow voice if
no FAX arrives before then.

Anybody know more about this? How do I get my stuff through customs
before I get there and keep the costs of this shipment down low enough
that I can make the hoped-for $20/unit profit? Help !
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 461 Wed Jul 31, 1991
D.THOMPSON66 [David @ JMG] at 23:03 EDT

Fall Comdex...

Atari say its too early to discuss their plans for Comdex yet they want
commitment out of Developers for a November show. Strange...

Well since Atari won't talk about Comdex yet, how about developers? Who's
planning on going if Atari offer space. We have to book early to get the
cheap charters and don't know yet if this year will really be worth it.

-djt

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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 462 Thu Aug 01, 1991
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 00:11 EDT

Dave Rudie & Russ Hickenbottom are our "roadies". They were a bit
worn out at the show, having stayed up nearly 36 hours by the
time it started. (I don't think that that is such a good idea).

I'm sure that they were rather spaced out by 1:00 or so. It's not
the best way to make an impression on attendees, but they did
just fine. (I found out that it's best to have ALL items in ones
product line at the shows. even if it's 2 or three per. There's
always someone that want just the item that you didn't bring and
you never hear the end of it:^)

I'll probably end up going to Chicago but it'll have nothing to
do with Atari's wonderful cooperation. I'll go in spite of it :^)

Bye: Dr. Bob
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 463 Thu Aug 01, 1991
MINDOVERMIDI at 06:09 EDT

Dorothy, I also believe you may be completely unique. :)
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 464 Thu Aug 01, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 09:59 EDT

Dorothy, contact the American Commercial Attache in Germany and ask. That's
what they're paid to do.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 465 Thu Aug 01, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 12:30 EDT

I believe this sticking point has been resolved. Thanks to all who
provided advice. It turns out that there are _many_ ways to get the
stuff to my booth!

For those of you who are going and lugging your own stuff, you ought
to be aware of the discussion I had in /sends during the conference
last night. The consensus was that Duesseldorf is not as much of a
selling show as we would expect. It _is_ a show for users, to be
sure, but many buy few items and simply browse, planning for future
purchases. Remember, unlike the US users we often meet at shows,
the Germans can go to a dealer _anytime_, so the immediate need to
purchase isn't there. Like all shows, there's always some question,
too, as to how well a particular product will move from one moment to
the next. The upshot is that I have pared down my shipping list to
a measely 75 units of each of the three products. These products are
already completely in German. I may well not sell them out to the
public; if I do wind up with leftovers, I hope I'll have established
a deal with a distributor or at least with a few dealers by then so
I'm not having to drag them home. If your own product is not yet
translated, the advice I've gathered is to take very few, perhaps 10
of each, and plan on making the distributor-getting the major purpose
of the show for yourselves. Like me, if you do sell out, you can
always take orders and ship them after you get home.

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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 466 Thu Aug 01, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 16:06 EDT

I find that contradictory to my own experience at Duesseldorf. Our German
representatives for DynaCADD, CRP, manufacture a quality Digitizer. Last year
at Duesseldorf, this unit that sells for thousands of DM's, sold out by noon
of the first day of the show and was CRP upset that they hadn't brought more
with them.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 467 Thu Aug 01, 1991
ICDINC at 16:25 EDT

Ditto from ICD. We sell a large amount of product at Duesseldorf. Not nearly
as much as the Koeln Amiga Show but after all.. it is the Atari market.

- TOM -
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 468 Thu Aug 01, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:47 EDT

Wow, what a mixed message I get about this thing! In any case, I
think now that I would rather err on the side of caution.

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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 469 Thu Aug 01, 1991
DOUBLE-CLICK at 21:19 EDT

Dorothy -

Try calling Internation Exhibits Transport, Inc. (IET) for sending stuff over
to the show. Phone: 212-608-6690. The person we dealt with was Bruce de
Weil. They are the customs broker we used for the 16 bit Faire and did a fine
job. It will cost you, but if that is the only recourse...

- mike

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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 470 Thu Aug 01, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:33 EDT

Mike, thanks for the tip, but I have a plan that I'm sure will work now.
(at last!) By the way, Atari Germany did respond to my FAX late today.
Matthias Born said that I could ship my stuff to them and they would
handle it from there. I think I'll go one of the other suggested routes
tomorrow, but it is great to know that they are concerned enough about
US participation to go out of their way like this. Anyone who would
want to use the Atari Germany way, please do contact me in GEMail and
I will give you the particulars as related to me and let you know who
to contact there.
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Category 75, Topic 7
Message 471 Thu Aug 01, 1991
J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:52 EDT

Aw heck Dorothy, I'm not depressed...just figured that sales would have been a
bit better. Heck, I'm still working on it...just called Atari User today to
set up advertising, will be working on ST Connection as soon as I have time,
etc. etc. It all just takes times...at least my name is starting to get about
now...

I *did* meet Chet and Doc's roadies, as you called them, but geeze, both Chet
and Dr. Bob are such *interesting* (hmmmm...) on line personalities that I was
looking forward to meeting the actual individuals! Of course, I *DID* get to
meet you, and we *DID* get officially pinned, so..... (Ah....still in
heaven....)

John T.

------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 472 Fri Aug 02, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:51 EDT

If I recall correctly from last year, German customs will allow 5 pieces of
each product (as samples) to be brought in without paying any duty. At least
this is what I seem to remember the agent saying when I was paying the duty on
the 10 pieces per product I had. I'll be verifying this fact before going
this year and will repost this information when I find out for sure.

John
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 473 Fri Aug 02, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:10 EDT

John, please do remember to post it, as I plan to hand-carry a few samples
just in case there's some mixup with my shipment. Remember Glendale?
No product...no sale. And I didn't have a clean t-shirt each morning
unless I _bought_ one!
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 474 Fri Aug 02, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:35 EDT

Dorothy,

This may have been suggested by someone else before but I'll post it incase
you missed it.

Bring your software packaging materials with you and tell the customs that
they are literatures for the show. When you get to Germany, buy a bunch of
disks and run copies there and package them in Germany. This would require
that you 1) get there ahead of time, 2) have an computer in your hotel room.
3) or find a disk duplicating house in Dusseldorf. In any case, you may be
able to avoid a lot of taxes.

If my hardwares can be duplicated as easily, I would have done the same.

Paul Wu
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 475 Fri Aug 02, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 09:53 EDT

Paul, since you mention literature, I oughtta ask this: I had planned
to hand-transport 1000 flyers and print more there if needed. I recall
someone having reported having to pay a duty on freely-distributed
flyers at one of the Canadian shows I've attended. Is Germany going
to charge me for these? (If so, by God, they are only worth $10!)
I'm going to arrive in Duesseldorf at 6 am, and I just know I'm not
going to be in the mood to deal with customs agents at that moment. ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 476 Fri Aug 02, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 17:50 EDT

Do you have anything to declare? NO. Next!
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 477 Fri Aug 02, 1991
DOUBLE-CLICK at 18:12 EDT

Question: Where do these custom agents spring up from? We hand carried a
bunch of stuff into England, and a bunch of stuff thru Europe (Amsterdam,
France, Germany) in January and never ran into a customs agent. Of course we
always answered NO to any questions.

- mike

------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 478 Fri Aug 02, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:30 EDT

Dot, play it REAL smart. Just Say NINE.

He can draw his own conclusions ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 479 Mon Aug 05, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 14:26 EDT

I received today a formletter dated 7/30 from Atari Germany about
the Duesseldorf show. It included a floorplan for Halle 12, the
one in which the USA Pavillion is located. I'm in Stand H24 of
that area.

The letter is in German. Basically, it reports my booth location
and serves to invite me to a traditional "Get Together Party" on
Friday (8/23) in the "Conference Center East" following the
opening day of the show. Admission tickets will be provided
during the day on Friday. I assume all developers attending will
be eligible for such tickets.

Note to others attending: If you have received a German-language
letter which appears to relate additional information concerning
your particular situation and you cannot decipher it, please do
not hesitate to ask me for a translation. I would assume that
all US participants would receive the very same formletter as I
have, but if not, would be happy to provide translations.
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 480 Tue Aug 06, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 03:19 EDT

Dorothy:

I didn't get dutied on my literature so I don't think you have to worry about
that. My plan is to invoice my stuff at 20% its actual value. That should save
me a lot of duty. I am going to arrive at Dusseldorf a week early so I'll have
plenty of time making contacts with potential distributors. Actually that is
the only way I could get my cheap fair (at $950!!)
By the way, did you get your show tickets from Bill Reboch or from Atari
Germany?
I hope no one works for the German customs here. :^)


Jim:

You crack me up!



Paul
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 481 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:20 EDT

John T. - Ifn yer showing up at the Chicago show (if there is a Chicago show)
or WAACE, you can meet these "interesting" characters Chet & the Doc and the
roadies too!

______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 482 Tue Aug 06, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:58 EDT

Paul, the other day I received what would be the equivalent of a German
"vendor packet". It included a multi-page flyer about rules and booth
equipment offerings, 4 tickets, and a handful of one-page full-color
flyers promoting the show. It came from Atari US, but obviously had been
sent from Germany to them, as everything was completlely in German.

Then yesterday I received a two-page mailing from Atari Germany, telling
me my booth number and containing a map of Halle 12.
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 483 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 15:04 EDT

However, if you want to wrestle, you'll have to visit Dorothy to get "pinned."

______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 484 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 15:07 EDT

Cross disciplined? Wasn't that a tune by 2live?
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 485 Tue Aug 06, 1991
J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:09 EDT

:-) Well Chet, IF there is a Chicago show, I'll certainly be there! If for no
other reason than to meet you and the Doc (forget the roadies...I met them
already!)

I'm working on a software deal now, that, if it goes through, will be
introduced at the Chicago show. Could be interesting! (IF there is a Chicago
show! :-)

And now that I've met Dorothy, she can "pin" me anytime! <sheepish grin!>
John T.


------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 486 Wed Aug 07, 1991
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 12:44 EDT

Just curious, does the T. stand for Tiberius? :^)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 487 Thu Aug 08, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 00:31 EDT

Dorothy,

I got those tickets too. They sure look pretty fancy. Today I received a
letter from Atari Germany. I think I am in booth E32 if I read it correctly.
The show space looks pretty big. Maybe 7-8 times bigger than the Glendale
show.

By the way, I got a call from Roger Davis of System Solutions in UK inquiring
about my products. Anyone of you dealt with him before?

Paul Wu



------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 488 Thu Aug 08, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:44 EDT

Paul, I think you are supposed to be on Row H, not E, if you are in the
USA area, but whatever...If your map just has Halle 12 on it, consider
that there is an additional hall that has nearly as much room as well.
Halle 12 is the "main" hall, but the other hall is packed with vendors
too.
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 489 Thu Aug 08, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 02:57 EDT

Dorothy,

You are right. I am in E... sorry, my memory needs refresh faster than my
dynamic RAM. I need a static RAM brain cell upgrade.

Paul Wu
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 490 Thu Aug 08, 1991
CHERRY.FONTS at 02:59 EDT

I deal with Roger Davies in London. The jury is still out on him. He's doing
a great job for a friend of mine. But I'm not too sure how well he's doing for
me. DON'T sign any exclusives with him. :-) He has what seems to me to be an
odd approach to marketing. An approach that doesn't include advertising. He
seems to prefer direct mail, which is great for targeted recipients but to
cold-call an unknown product by direct mail? Wierd. Who knows, maybe he's a
genius.

The fellow from Compo that came to the Vancouver show said System Solutions
is a really good company and that I was lucky to be dealing with them. He also
said they're pretty much restricted to the british market and I was cautioned
against believing otherwise.

I have an unfounded queasy feeling about Roger. Get everything in writing.
(And tell him I said hello. Seriously.)

..Todd



------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 491 Fri Aug 09, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:07 EDT

System Solutions (Roger Davies, et al) is handling our software in the UK.
He's definitely a bit pushy but I've found that it's easiest to just agree to
at least consider what he's asking for and then just forget about the more
outlandish things (he'll drop them) like sending image files of all your
logos, etc.

As far as advertising, he never said that he wouldn't advertise. We've already
been through a British relationship where they didn't advertise...it didn't
work. I haven't actually seen any ads for our stuff in ST World or ST User,
but many people have told us they've read about their carrying our products in
ST Format. They've also been placing review products out there and I believe
at least one review is already out.

As for exclusives, we've verbally (and FAXually) agreed to be exclusive with
Systems Solutions. I don't know who else I'd sell to over there anyway. All
other roads I explored have dead-ended.

I've pretty much given up on expecting too much from the British market. They
seem to be heavily concentrated on games, plus NeoDesk is already extremely
popular over there so it's difficult for us to break in. There's also a lot
of piracy there. In 1989, CodeHead Software was voted the second best
software company (right behind Hi-Soft) by ST World readers. Since we had
only sold 300 pieces (total of all products) over there, something sounds a
bit fishy. I read this as "we love CodeHead Software, because we can pirate
it so easily".

John
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 492 Fri Aug 09, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:05 EDT

Todd & John:

Thanks for the information. Roger Davies claims that his company is affiliated
or partner with a Dutch company called Trade-It and Systems Solutions handles
the English speaking market while Trade-It handles the rest of the European
market. Do you guys have any experience with Trade-It?

While we are on the same subject. Anyone familiar with Omikron Soft & Hardware
in Germany?

Paul Wu
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 493 Fri Aug 09, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 04:16 EDT

Paul, Omikron has been recommended to me by several people and I have
asked them to chat with me in Duesseldorf. I have their BASIC, and
it's a fine product. It's the "official" BASIC for the ST in some
European countries.
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 494 Fri Aug 09, 1991
CHERRY.FONTS at 23:19 EDT

Isn't Trade-It the young fellows publishing Avante Vector in Europe? Extremely
unfortunate name for a software company. I'd have called it BUY-IT or DON'T-
TRADE-IT. <chuckle>

Yes, Roger is pushy. He wants to copy-protect my software, rename my files,
redesign my packages, bundle the fonts with somebody else's bloody clipart
utilities.. I'm surprised he hasn't asked me to change the name of my
company.

..Todd

------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 495 Sat Aug 10, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:31 EDT

ToddFonts, yeah, that'd be better ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 496 Sat Aug 10, 1991
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 03:04 EDT

Todd,

How do you copy-protect fonts?

------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 497 Sat Aug 10, 1991
CHERRY.FONTS at 21:23 EDT

Jim,
Don't you believe that TODD is synonymous with CHERRY? :-)

BTW: I got a registration card back from a lady named C
heri Ferarri from
Pacifica California. Kinda starts the blood flowing doesn't it?

Paul,
There is a way to sort-of copy-protect Calamus fonts. Just ask the folks at
Compugraphic.

..Cherry (honest!) :-)


------------
Category 75, Topic 7
Message 498 Sun Aug 11, 1991
MINDOVERMIDI at 20:40 EDT

Todd - but what does it all *MEAN*?
------------
REPly ?
************
Topic 9 Mon Oct 22, 1990
ISD [Nathan] (Forwarded)
Sub: Confidentiality

I have taken this opportunity to start a new topic to discuss a very important
subject to us all, the complete confidentiality of category 70.
520 message(s) total.
************
------------
Category 75, Topic 9
Message 520 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:21 EDT

THis could get nasty....
------------
REPly ?
************
Topic 10 Mon Oct 01, 1990
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] (Forwarded)
Sub: Technical Discussions

Please place Technical Discussions Here!

639 message(s) total.
************
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 625 Tue Jul 30, 1991
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:23 EDT

Nor will you want it to be..........we hope. ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 626 Wed Jul 31, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:45 EDT

Tyson,

You're lucky your son was a Gemini. Otherwise he might have been a Neodesk or
a HotWire. <grin>

John
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 627 Wed Jul 31, 1991
T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 22:19 EDT

I checked the astrological charts for the NeoDesk and Hotwire. Those signs are
fated for prosperity and fulfillment. But beware of clashes with Pulleytarians
whose orbit crosses the GEnie constellation!

Tyson @ Horrorscopes Inc. (gee was that would make a great name for a hack-em-
up movie...)

------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 628 Thu Aug 01, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:19 EDT

;-) It's all clear now.
------------

Category 75, Topic 10
Message 629 Thu Aug 01, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:41 EDT

Tyson,

In LA, there's a newsprint-type magazine called the LA Weekly. It's quite
progressive and a bit outrageous. They have a regular column called the
"Rocky Horroscope" so you were not the first to think of the term. Sorry.
<grin>

John
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 630 Thu Aug 01, 1991
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:47 EDT

Oops...that should have read "Rocky Horrorscope".
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 631 Thu Aug 01, 1991
DOUBLE-CLICK at 21:20 EDT

Hey, I just thought of a signature for the IAAD that I wanted to get
everyone's comments on. I was thinking about using it...

__/\__
Mike \ / Circumsizing
Vederman /_ _\ the Atari Community
\/

Any comments? ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 633 Thu Aug 01, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:38 EDT

What a character, this guy! Every developer's association oughtta have
the benefits of a resident moil. ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 634 Thu Aug 01, 1991
ISD [Nathan] at 21:45 EDT

HIIIIYA!!
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 635 Thu Aug 01, 1991
T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 21:52 EDT

That's OK, "Someone thought of it already..." will probably be envraged on my
tombstone!

Rocky Horrorscope <grin> I like it.

Tys

------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 636 Thu Aug 01, 1991
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:45 EDT

Oops? Damn potholes!!!!.....Sorry Joshua, don't worry, it'll grow back.

Not ;-)
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 637 Fri Aug 02, 1991
CRAIG.S.THOM at 19:13 EDT

argh
------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 638 Tue Aug 06, 1991
C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:28 EDT

How's about .....
____________________
/ circumventing \
/ the Atari \
/ community \
\ /
/\ \/
[ ]

------------
Category 75, Topic 10
Message 639 Tue Aug 06, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:59 EDT

Chet, ;-)
------------
REPly ? ************
Topic 11 Mon Aug 20, 1990
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] (Forwarded)
Sub: IAAD Business

I've been delegated the authority to set up a general meeting of the
membership of the IAAD. Here's the place to discuss timing and agenda
suggestions.
74 message(s) total.
************
------------
Category 75, Topic 11
Message 68 Thu Aug 01, 1991
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:00 EDT

The following people currently have legitimate access to this Category:

ICDINC
DAVESMALL
CRAIG.S.THOM
NEVIN-S
GRIBNIF [Dan]
HISOFT
DATAQUE.1 [Chuck]
ISD [Nathan]
DOUG.W
JEFF.W [RTC Sysop]
C.HARVEY
C.F.JOHNSON [CodeHead]
D.S.HARRISON [Doug]
C.DAYMON
J.PIERSTORFF [J.PIERSTORFF]
GENEXRX [Gene]
H.MURPHY [M.S. Design]
JB.DAVIS [Brad@DreamPk]
STEVE-B
BPENNER
JLS [John STanley]
ESTEEM [Tom Nielsen]
D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs]
C.STANFORD
B.LUNESKI1 [DBII]
B.NOONAN
S.WHITNEY [SteveWhitney]
N.WEINRESS
CHERRY.FONTS
P.HELLINGER [helli]
C.WALTERS1 [Chet]
G.RICHARDSO1 [George]
W.BUCKHOLDT
K.SCHUMACHE1
J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead]
R.SKRALY [Soft-Aware]
D.BECKEMEYER [David @ BDT]
L.SEILER
A.RIDLEY1
DOUBLE-CLICK
R.TURNER10
J.CRASWELL
M.TURCSANYI [Melinda]
J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH]
E.ROSENQUIST [Eric@Strata]
JMGSOFT [George @ JMG]
C.WALNUM1 [CLAY]
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob]
T.GILL7 [GILLT]
J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold]
ISD2 [David]
WORDFLAIR [Lauren]
MINDOVERMIDI
WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu]
P.COMEAU1 [Phil Comeau]
D.THOMPSON66 [David @ JMG]
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]
------------

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