MEMORY LANE
Topic 2 Thu Oct 26, 1989 D.A.BRUMLEVE (Forwarded) Sub: Will you sign in please? A place for Professional Developers of the AAD to expose themselves... <sleezy grin> 370 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 351 Tue Jul 30, 1991 P.HELLINGER [helli] at 15:00 EDT Hello, I'm the new one! My name is Peter Hellinger, from Hellinger Software Entwicklung. As you see by the word "Entwicklung" (it means developement), I'm from Germany. I work with computers nearly 15 years, starting with the legendary TI-99 (anyone remember?), some CP/M-80 stuff, PC, XT, AT, and about 5 years ago, I bougth my first ST. And I've never been sorry for... I developed some Modula-2 stuff for the ST: Some parts of the Megamax- Modula- 2 developing system (special parts of the editor), a compiler independent library called MagicLib (hu, some of the Jefferson-M2 guys out there?), a high level Library called MagicTools (features 'flying dials', menulines in windows etc.). Many german applications use my Libraries (CAT, a frontend mailbox programm like Aladdin for GEnie, TeXdraw etc.). In the last 3 years (when I got time) I wrote together with Johannes Lecke- busch (from the old 68000'er magazine) an allround texteditor called GOLEM which means G)raphic O)bject oriented L)anguage E)nvironment in M)odula. This autumn I will redesign the Userinterface (GOLEMs own is horrible, believe me!) and implement some of the new ideas I have got during the last 6 month working on the MagicTools... So, any questions? Feel free to ask me anything... Peter "Helli" Hellinger ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 352 Tue Jul 30, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:22 EDT Willkommen in Cat 75, Helli! ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 353 Tue Jul 30, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 18:45 EDT Howdy Peter! CP/M-80, huh? Jerry'll like your stuff :^) Bye: Dr. Bob ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 354 Tue Jul 30, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 20:51 EDT Welcome to our cat Helli. Please feel free to ask any questions your own self. :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 355 Tue Jul 30, 1991 DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:38 EDT Well, I suppose I should jump in here before Nathan reminds me again! My name is Chuck Steinman, and I have been programming on an Atari platform for around 12 years now. As some of you no doubt know, I am one of the more vocal 8-bit supporters, and have finally decided to 'officially' enter the ST market. I currently have developed product on/for the Atari-8, and MS-DOS machines, including both hardware and software. I also have designed custom turnkey systems from about $500 to $50,000 in cost using Intel, Motorola, Hitachi, and Rockwell 4 to 32-bit processors. I primarily develop code in assembly, but have started shifting to 'C' as allowed by the more powerful CPU's these days. I have written a multi-tasking OS (4 user / 8-task) and DOS for use with one of the Intel processors. Current projects of intrest include a true ANSI C compiler for the 8-bit, and a cross-compiler and cross-assembler for the ST and PC for a 6502 target. I have several low level utilities (dealing with system diagnostics and performance optimization) in the works for the ST, which I hope to introduce in late '91 early '92. Chuck ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 356 Tue Jul 30, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:41 EDT Ahhhh, so that's what I am, when they called me an Entwickler I was wondering if I was welcome back in Germany ;-) So my boards must be Entwicklee's? Gee if the local authorities hear I've been Entwickling, I'll be joining PeeWee Herman on A Current Affair ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 357 Wed Jul 31, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:34 EDT Chuck has arrived! ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 358 Wed Jul 31, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:34 EDT Peter and Chuck: Welcome to the IAAD! ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 359 Wed Jul 31, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 12:19 EDT Good point Chuck. :-) Welcome. ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 360 Wed Jul 31, 1991 WORDFLAIR [Lauren] at 12:30 EDT Hi and welcome. Lauren ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 361 Wed Jul 31, 1991 C.WALNUM1 [CLAY] at 21:49 EDT Hi, Peter! And Chuck, too! ---Clay ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 362 Wed Jul 31, 1991 T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 22:18 EDT Peter and Chuck, Greetings and welcome. You both sound like great additions to the membership! ahh, what is your view on guns... no, don't answer that PLEASE! ;-) Take care, Tyson Gill @ GT Software ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 363 Wed Jul 31, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 23:58 EDT Hi Chuck. 'Bout time you came in here :-) Bye: Dr. Bob ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 364 Thu Aug 01, 1991 N.WEINRESS at 01:23 EDT Welcome, Hilli and to Chuck! Here's something to warm the cockels of your heart, Chuck. I am a gradualte of the second class of the PPS-4 school, at Rockwell's facilities on Katella Ave. (1973) Norm ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 365 Thu Aug 01, 1991 MINDOVERMIDI at 06:09 EDT Welcome aboard, folks. - Darren :) ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 366 Thu Aug 01, 1991 NEVIN-S at 22:34 EDT Welome to both of you..! --Nevin ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 367 Fri Aug 02, 1991 W.BUCKHOLDT at 07:22 EDT Welcome to our group Peter and Chuck! I think you will find the people here both interesting and highly intelligent. Wayne ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 368 Fri Aug 02, 1991 DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 18:51 EDT Well... thanks everyone! ::blush:: glad to officially be here, and I am sure it will be a great asset in my (many expected) times of need. =-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 369 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:01 EDT Hello Helli.... or izzat .... naw Hi Chuck (no name games with that one.....) ______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{) ------------ Category 75, Topic 2 Message 370 Tue Aug 06, 1991 P.HELLINGER [helli] at 15:06 EDT Thanks for that great welcome to all! Helli ------------ REPly ? ************ Topic 7 Tue Oct 30, 1990 DOUBLE-CLICK (Forwarded) Sub: Shows-Current Discussion: 16-bit Faire Let's talk about this show Jan 4-6, 1990 498 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 443 Tue Jul 30, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:25 EDT Mike Brown of LCACE (the users group that has held two successful small shows in the recent past and is now helping Atari to put on the Chicago AtariFest) uploaded the following message to Cat 11. As some of you might not frequent that area, I'm listing it below: ------------ Category 11, Topic 10 Message 89 Mon Jul 29, 1991 M.BROWN56 [Mike Brown] at 20:07 EDT Several people have asked me for an update on the show progress here's a status report for you all- This past week, we received a letter from the Ramada O'Hare hotel stating that our "word of mouth" reservation for the Convention Center, ballrooms, meeting rooms, and reserved "tower" sleeping rooms will run out on August 1st. A formal contract must be signed by that date or the facilities will be made available to other groups, and all outstanding sleeping room reservations will be cancelled (with no penalty to those making the reservations). Atari management has stated that they will not sign for the hotel until at least 50% of the floor space has been sold. As of today, we have 7 exhibitors signed and paid on the main floor, and one in the 8-bit area. We would need to have about 4 times this number to meet Mr. Tramiel's requirement. In our past shows, the majority of exhibitors sign up within the last 30-60 days prior to a show; time is not on our side to get the number of exhibitors required before August 1st. LCACE has spent a considerable amount of time and money in the organizing and promotion of the Chicago Computerfest by Atari, it is a shame that an event holding the potential to rival the European Atari-specific shows in terms of attendance, is withering on the vine. At this point, I, Bob and LCACE have done as much as possible to assure that the Chicago Computerfest by Atari will be a success- it is now up to the potential exhibitors and Atari management to determine what the ultimate fate of the show will be. Mike \ LCACE ------------ Hey, I really want this show to happen! There has never been a major show in this huge metropolitan area, one that really _does_ have Atari dealers (and MIDI dealers, Darren). Sure, it's an easy drive for me, but it's a good opportunity for everybody. I was really hoping it would be the biggest show of the year in terms of attendance. The area has several users groups and other major metro areas are within easy driving distance (Indy: 2 hours, my house: 2 hours, Milwaukee: 1 hour, etc.). I didn't realize there was this kind of deal with Atari until the post went up, or I would have said something in here sooner. PLEASE, if you do plan on attending the Chicago AtariFest, help Mike fill that 30,000 square feet with a GEMail commitment today! Thanks. Send mail to M.BROWN56, a copy to Bob Brodie might be helpful. (BOB-BRODIE) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 444 Tue Jul 30, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:14 EDT I'm not about to send money to these folks when this is so tenous. And come on "rivaling the European shows"...yeah right. They'll be lucky if 1,000 show up. Sounds like Atari is being unrealistic...read ignorant...in regards to how the developer community plans for and pays for shows. Maybe 50% by Oct ;-) But not August 1st, no way. So cancel it, and stop wasting money promoting a dead horse. Sorry Dot, just my opinion. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 445 Tue Jul 30, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 03:47 EDT Jim, don't send money. Just tell 'em if you are planning on it. I did send money, by the way, and they haven't cashed the check. The LCACE crew is not stupid, nor are they dishonest. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 446 Tue Jul 30, 1991 ICDINC at 09:48 EDT I have to agree with Jim on this one. These guys are stupid if they think they can rival any European Show in Chicago. There is potential for maybe 5,000 attendees but 1-2,000 is probably more realistic. We are supporting them anyway. If they are counting on support from Atari to make the show fly then they are also ignorant. (CHange that "stupid" in the 1st line also to "ignorant".) Hasn't Chicago cancelled show plans in the past because of Atari's lack of commitment? Here we go again. - TOM - PS Ralph, Keep my comments here out of your Rag! (That is a warning) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 447 Tue Jul 30, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 10:11 EDT Tom, let's get one thing perfectly clear here. For that matter I guess it's past time that we did. If Ralph ever posted anything from within cat 75 in his mag or elsewhere in the board, GEnie themselves would take immediate action. This is a fact of which he is aware but I'm sure in case he isn't, one of you will go running to tell him. (sigh) I agree with Tom, no surprise, 1-2000 people seems about right and maximum possible *unless* Atari spends 6 figures advertising the event. :-) As far as the August 1 note goes, whose jerking whose chain here. :-) Either Atari will decide to do the show or they will decide to pass. The Aug. 1 deadline just makes it imperative that they put up now or shut up now. The # of Dev's committed is so much smoke and I will tell Atari that if I happen to be speaking to them in the next few days. :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 448 Tue Jul 30, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:31 EDT As I understand it, this show (Chicago) was to be _different_ from your typical user-group show. Atari had promised (Greg Pratt himself, I understand) to pay for the upfront costs associated with the show. Atari has in fact had a hand in the planning. I am aware that Greg toured the proposed show facilities and gave his approval of them back in the Spring. The user group volunteers are acting essentially as front men for Atari; Atari is giving -- or as the case may be, not giving -- the show. Atari has controlled most decisions re booth pricing and stuff like that. It appears from Mike's post that Atari had made its follow-through contingent upon early commitments from a larger percentage of developers than is realistic. August is simply too early for devs to be sending in money and signing on the dotted line for a November show. I'll bet many of you who plan to attend Glendale and WAACE have yet to sign up, and these shows preceed the November show by more than a month. The user group is, by the way, likely to put on a smaller event a la their previous fests (which were quite good for that kind of thing) if Atari backs out. Where did you see this thing about rivaling European shows? In my discussions with Mike, it's been clear that he had in mind a MidWest show drawing approximately as many as WAACE or Glendale, not Duesseldorf. If the advertising were to be heavy (as once planned), it could do better than that. There are a whole lotta users in this area. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 449 Tue Jul 30, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 18:55 EDT I missed the Chicago show last year (much to John's chagrin, I'm sure :^) but was looking forward to it this time around. The fact that Atari's cooperation/non-cooperation is increased this year doesn't change my mind at all..... well.... actually.... maybe I should skip it this year too if they're going to pussyfoot around. Does Mavis Beacon make a pencil-tutor ? Maybe we should send a copy of it to our 'temulous trio' in Sunnyvale. Bye: Dr. Bob (this message not to be disclosed outside this catagory) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 450 Tue Jul 30, 1991 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 20:13 EDT I've been holding out myself waiting to see when and if Atari commits. Unlike Jim, I think they could be many more than 1000 folks at this show, if it's done up right. But at $350/booth *I* have to make sure. I've been talking with Mike about this over the past few months and he knows and understands my feelings on this. In my opinion it's the old chicken and egg thing. Atari doesn't want to commit before the developers commit, and vice versa. The sad thing is that at the outset, it was promoted that Atari was or already had put up $35,000 for the show. Then the truth came out. Sigh... This could be a very important show for all of us. But I still can't commit until I know it's certain. Just _another_ fine mess you've gotten us into Atari! Sheese! >>> Indy Show... Although sales were lower than I expected, I did enjoy this show. I did have quite a few "interested" coupon takers, so all is not lost, I guess. Probably the *best* part of the show was that I finally had the chance to meet Dorothy! That was nice! :-) I'll never forget the first words out of Dorothy's mouth when she walked over to my table..."Hi John, I see we've been pinned!" (Ah...you see, we both had on those beautiful gold IAAD pins Nathan made for us, and, uh...) The *worst* part of the show was that Chet and Dr. Bob had standins at the WizWorks booth, right across from mine. Shucks, I was looking forward to meeting them! John T. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 451 Tue Jul 30, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 20:55 EDT If Atari commits to doing a proper show in Chicago, I am confident that the Developer participation would be there, without a doubt. The rest is bullshit. Thanks for the kind words re: the pins. Now if the rest of you would only buy yours I wouldn't be losing $1,000.00 out of my pocket. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 452 Tue Jul 30, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 22:11 EDT Nathan, tell Helli that membership is contingent upon purchase of a pin. In fact, tell _everybody_ that. People will be beating down the door to buy your pins. John T. -- Don't be depressed about sales. Every show is different for me. I've sold 60+ units, I've sold 1! I've enjoyed every show except Anaheim, and I don't want to talk about Anaheim. ;-) And as for the "stand-ins" in Chet's & Doc's booth, do you mean to tell me you blew your chance to meet their cool roadies??? They are along most every trip, even when Chet and Doc do participate. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 453 Tue Jul 30, 1991 DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:15 EDT Well, here are my $.02 worth: First, I don't think there was a mention of any contractual quota requirement (or date) mentioned for the booths in the forms I saw (I could be wrong here, I payed for mine some 2 months ago and haven't looked at it since). If the date was as critical as implied here, there should have been a discount to prompt people to send in early. Second, unless the hotel has someone already lined up, I think they are kinda pulling someone's chain, as I couldn't see anyone securing the site on such a short notice (under 120 days) if they pulled the rug out on August 1. Anyone who has been involved with such a large site knows what a pain it is to find a site even a year in advance of a show date. Last, from my experience at the smaller 1-day LCACE shows, I would expect in the 1500-2000 range, maybe a bit higher, *IF* it were advertised (I do not recall seeing any magazine ads for this show yet, which it is getting high time for I would think). (as I stand back and wait for the topic piranhas to chew my ***) Chuck ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 454 Tue Jul 30, 1991 DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] at 22:41 EDT BTW: how do I get one of these pins? ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 455 Tue Jul 30, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:53 EDT The "rivaling" quote was from your post Dot...of their message. It's on line 4 or 5 of their stuff. Maybe more people would show up, depends on just how healthy sales have been for the dealers in the area...beats me. If LaLaLand pulls in 2-3Kilopersons, then anywhere else in the US will be less. DC area will be second. At least that's the way it's gonna be until there's an Atari sales revolution... ...and snowball fights break out in hell ;-) So what does this mean? Is Atari going to pay the money and count on us showing up? OR Since we all haven't coughed up the dough already, chuck it all down the dumper? ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 456 Wed Jul 31, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:37 EDT Ok, Jim, my fault then. I think it would rival European shows in its own small pond, but these things are relative. ;-) Chuck, according to Mike, the hotel has no problem whatsoever attracting a new contractee on just a couple month's notice. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 457 Wed Jul 31, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:45 EDT According to Rehbock, we are supposed to send in our checks to Mike Brown but he won't cash them until October(?). It really is silly for Atari not to sign the contract. Big deal...so they sign a contract. What kind of trouble can they get in? Sheesh. We need their commitment. They need our commitment. But to commit, we have to spend money and they don't. Typical. John ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 458 Wed Jul 31, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:34 EDT I suggest those of you that plan to participate in the Chicago fest to write to Mike Brown. I see the Chicago show as a tremendous oppurtunity to sell a lot of stuff. Because of its intended show date, I expect it to be the biggest money maker for vendors. If you are interested in making money, don't let this chance pass you by. Oh yeah, I forgot, you folks aren't interested in money. Otherwise, you wouldn't have choosen the Atari market. :^) Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 459 Wed Jul 31, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 15:00 EDT It's too close to WAACE, and COMDEX, I see it as a real curiousity that Atari wants that timeframe. And the potential shit weather...oh brother. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 460 Wed Jul 31, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:50 EDT OK, here it is just three weeks before the Duesseldorf show and I've got 7 large cartons of software in my livingroom looking for a place to go. I finally ended up taking 100 or so copies of each program, a few more of Kidpublisher Pro (already reviewed in Germany), in spite of other recommendations on both ends of the spectrum. If I sell half of these, the trip is paid for...unless of course shipping costs and customs eat it all up. It seems few people are in my position--I may be completely unique, I don't know. Most people either: (a) have a German-based distributor already who makes the copies there or (b) don't have a German-language version yet and so are basically going to land a distributor and get some PR or (c) don't take units in the first place. Well, I gotta sell some units. I am hoping to land a distributor, but I've already got three products in the right language and appropriately boxed, so I'm ready to sell 'em. So I hassled Bill Rehbock for two months to see if he could come up with an easy way to get my stuff through customs ahead of me. He couldn't or at least didn't. He did refer me to Art Morgan, whom I contacted last week. Art knows plenty about getting German software through US customs, but not the other way around. He referred me to a customs broker, who is extremely expensive, but he also said I'd be best off contacting Atari Germany directly. So I sent a FAX Monday (they got it Tuesday morning) to Matthias Born at Atari Germany with a cc: to a woman there who has already had to deal with me. I put a heading at the top to alert them that I required a speedy reply. (I suppose this means I go to the bottom of the pile.) In any case, I still have not heard back. I am hoping they will say, "Don't worry, address it to us and we'll see that you have the boxes before the show," but since they have not yet said anything at all, I'm nervous about it. I believe I will call them tomorrow voice if no FAX arrives before then. Anybody know more about this? How do I get my stuff through customs before I get there and keep the costs of this shipment down low enough that I can make the hoped-for $20/unit profit? Help ! ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 461 Wed Jul 31, 1991 D.THOMPSON66 [David @ JMG] at 23:03 EDT Fall Comdex... Atari say its too early to discuss their plans for Comdex yet they want commitment out of Developers for a November show. Strange... Well since Atari won't talk about Comdex yet, how about developers? Who's planning on going if Atari offer space. We have to book early to get the cheap charters and don't know yet if this year will really be worth it. -djt ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 462 Thu Aug 01, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 00:11 EDT Dave Rudie & Russ Hickenbottom are our "roadies". They were a bit worn out at the show, having stayed up nearly 36 hours by the time it started. (I don't think that that is such a good idea). I'm sure that they were rather spaced out by 1:00 or so. It's not the best way to make an impression on attendees, but they did just fine. (I found out that it's best to have ALL items in ones product line at the shows. even if it's 2 or three per. There's always someone that want just the item that you didn't bring and you never hear the end of it:^) I'll probably end up going to Chicago but it'll have nothing to do with Atari's wonderful cooperation. I'll go in spite of it :^) Bye: Dr. Bob ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 463 Thu Aug 01, 1991 MINDOVERMIDI at 06:09 EDT Dorothy, I also believe you may be completely unique. :) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 464 Thu Aug 01, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:59 EDT Dorothy, contact the American Commercial Attache in Germany and ask. That's what they're paid to do. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 465 Thu Aug 01, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 12:30 EDT I believe this sticking point has been resolved. Thanks to all who provided advice. It turns out that there are _many_ ways to get the stuff to my booth! For those of you who are going and lugging your own stuff, you ought to be aware of the discussion I had in /sends during the conference last night. The consensus was that Duesseldorf is not as much of a selling show as we would expect. It _is_ a show for users, to be sure, but many buy few items and simply browse, planning for future purchases. Remember, unlike the US users we often meet at shows, the Germans can go to a dealer _anytime_, so the immediate need to purchase isn't there. Like all shows, there's always some question, too, as to how well a particular product will move from one moment to the next. The upshot is that I have pared down my shipping list to a measely 75 units of each of the three products. These products are already completely in German. I may well not sell them out to the public; if I do wind up with leftovers, I hope I'll have established a deal with a distributor or at least with a few dealers by then so I'm not having to drag them home. If your own product is not yet translated, the advice I've gathered is to take very few, perhaps 10 of each, and plan on making the distributor-getting the major purpose of the show for yourselves. Like me, if you do sell out, you can always take orders and ship them after you get home. ------------ | Category 75, Topic 7 Message 466 Thu Aug 01, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 16:06 EDT I find that contradictory to my own experience at Duesseldorf. Our German representatives for DynaCADD, CRP, manufacture a quality Digitizer. Last year at Duesseldorf, this unit that sells for thousands of DM's, sold out by noon of the first day of the show and was CRP upset that they hadn't brought more with them. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 467 Thu Aug 01, 1991 ICDINC at 16:25 EDT Ditto from ICD. We sell a large amount of product at Duesseldorf. Not nearly as much as the Koeln Amiga Show but after all.. it is the Atari market. - TOM - ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 468 Thu Aug 01, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:47 EDT Wow, what a mixed message I get about this thing! In any case, I think now that I would rather err on the side of caution. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 469 Thu Aug 01, 1991 DOUBLE-CLICK at 21:19 EDT Dorothy - Try calling Internation Exhibits Transport, Inc. (IET) for sending stuff over to the show. Phone: 212-608-6690. The person we dealt with was Bruce de Weil. They are the customs broker we used for the 16 bit Faire and did a fine job. It will cost you, but if that is the only recourse... - mike ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 470 Thu Aug 01, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:33 EDT Mike, thanks for the tip, but I have a plan that I'm sure will work now. (at last!) By the way, Atari Germany did respond to my FAX late today. Matthias Born said that I could ship my stuff to them and they would handle it from there. I think I'll go one of the other suggested routes tomorrow, but it is great to know that they are concerned enough about US participation to go out of their way like this. Anyone who would want to use the Atari Germany way, please do contact me in GEMail and I will give you the particulars as related to me and let you know who to contact there. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 471 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:52 EDT Aw heck Dorothy, I'm not depressed...just figured that sales would have been a bit better. Heck, I'm still working on it...just called Atari User today to set up advertising, will be working on ST Connection as soon as I have time, etc. etc. It all just takes times...at least my name is starting to get about now... I *did* meet Chet and Doc's roadies, as you called them, but geeze, both Chet and Dr. Bob are such *interesting* (hmmmm...) on line personalities that I was looking forward to meeting the actual individuals! Of course, I *DID* get to meet you, and we *DID* get officially pinned, so..... (Ah....still in heaven....) John T. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 472 Fri Aug 02, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:51 EDT If I recall correctly from last year, German customs will allow 5 pieces of each product (as samples) to be brought in without paying any duty. At least this is what I seem to remember the agent saying when I was paying the duty on the 10 pieces per product I had. I'll be verifying this fact before going this year and will repost this information when I find out for sure. John ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 473 Fri Aug 02, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:10 EDT John, please do remember to post it, as I plan to hand-carry a few samples just in case there's some mixup with my shipment. Remember Glendale? No product...no sale. And I didn't have a clean t-shirt each morning unless I _bought_ one! ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 474 Fri Aug 02, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:35 EDT Dorothy, This may have been suggested by someone else before but I'll post it incase you missed it. Bring your software packaging materials with you and tell the customs that they are literatures for the show. When you get to Germany, buy a bunch of disks and run copies there and package them in Germany. This would require that you 1) get there ahead of time, 2) have an computer in your hotel room. 3) or find a disk duplicating house in Dusseldorf. In any case, you may be able to avoid a lot of taxes. If my hardwares can be duplicated as easily, I would have done the same. Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 475 Fri Aug 02, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 09:53 EDT Paul, since you mention literature, I oughtta ask this: I had planned to hand-transport 1000 flyers and print more there if needed. I recall someone having reported having to pay a duty on freely-distributed flyers at one of the Canadian shows I've attended. Is Germany going to charge me for these? (If so, by God, they are only worth $10!) I'm going to arrive in Duesseldorf at 6 am, and I just know I'm not going to be in the mood to deal with customs agents at that moment. ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 476 Fri Aug 02, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 17:50 EDT Do you have anything to declare? NO. Next! ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 477 Fri Aug 02, 1991 DOUBLE-CLICK at 18:12 EDT Question: Where do these custom agents spring up from? We hand carried a bunch of stuff into England, and a bunch of stuff thru Europe (Amsterdam, France, Germany) in January and never ran into a customs agent. Of course we always answered NO to any questions. - mike ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 478 Fri Aug 02, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 22:30 EDT Dot, play it REAL smart. Just Say NINE. He can draw his own conclusions ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 479 Mon Aug 05, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 14:26 EDT I received today a formletter dated 7/30 from Atari Germany about the Duesseldorf show. It included a floorplan for Halle 12, the one in which the USA Pavillion is located. I'm in Stand H24 of that area. The letter is in German. Basically, it reports my booth location and serves to invite me to a traditional "Get Together Party" on Friday (8/23) in the "Conference Center East" following the opening day of the show. Admission tickets will be provided during the day on Friday. I assume all developers attending will be eligible for such tickets. Note to others attending: If you have received a German-language letter which appears to relate additional information concerning your particular situation and you cannot decipher it, please do not hesitate to ask me for a translation. I would assume that all US participants would receive the very same formletter as I have, but if not, would be happy to provide translations. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 480 Tue Aug 06, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 03:19 EDT Dorothy: I didn't get dutied on my literature so I don't think you have to worry about that. My plan is to invoice my stuff at 20% its actual value. That should save me a lot of duty. I am going to arrive at Dusseldorf a week early so I'll have plenty of time making contacts with potential distributors. Actually that is the only way I could get my cheap fair (at $950!!) By the way, did you get your show tickets from Bill Reboch or from Atari Germany? I hope no one works for the German customs here. :^) Jim: You crack me up! Paul ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 481 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:20 EDT John T. - Ifn yer showing up at the Chicago show (if there is a Chicago show) or WAACE, you can meet these "interesting" characters Chet & the Doc and the roadies too! ______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 482 Tue Aug 06, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:58 EDT Paul, the other day I received what would be the equivalent of a German "vendor packet". It included a multi-page flyer about rules and booth equipment offerings, 4 tickets, and a handful of one-page full-color flyers promoting the show. It came from Atari US, but obviously had been sent from Germany to them, as everything was completlely in German. Then yesterday I received a two-page mailing from Atari Germany, telling me my booth number and containing a map of Halle 12. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 483 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 15:04 EDT However, if you want to wrestle, you'll have to visit Dorothy to get "pinned." ______Chet at \/\/iz\/\/orks! ;^{) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 484 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 15:07 EDT Cross disciplined? Wasn't that a tune by 2live? ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 485 Tue Aug 06, 1991 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:09 EDT :-) Well Chet, IF there is a Chicago show, I'll certainly be there! If for no other reason than to meet you and the Doc (forget the roadies...I met them already!) I'm working on a software deal now, that, if it goes through, will be introduced at the Chicago show. Could be interesting! (IF there is a Chicago show! :-) And now that I've met Dorothy, she can "pin" me anytime! <sheepish grin!> John T. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 486 Wed Aug 07, 1991 W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] at 12:44 EDT Just curious, does the T. stand for Tiberius? :^) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 487 Thu Aug 08, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 00:31 EDT Dorothy, I got those tickets too. They sure look pretty fancy. Today I received a letter from Atari Germany. I think I am in booth E32 if I read it correctly. The show space looks pretty big. Maybe 7-8 times bigger than the Glendale show. By the way, I got a call from Roger Davis of System Solutions in UK inquiring about my products. Anyone of you dealt with him before? Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 488 Thu Aug 08, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:44 EDT Paul, I think you are supposed to be on Row H, not E, if you are in the USA area, but whatever...If your map just has Halle 12 on it, consider that there is an additional hall that has nearly as much room as well. Halle 12 is the "main" hall, but the other hall is packed with vendors too. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 489 Thu Aug 08, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 02:57 EDT Dorothy, You are right. I am in E... sorry, my memory needs refresh faster than my dynamic RAM. I need a static RAM brain cell upgrade. Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 490 Thu Aug 08, 1991 CHERRY.FONTS at 02:59 EDT I deal with Roger Davies in London. The jury is still out on him. He's doing a great job for a friend of mine. But I'm not too sure how well he's doing for me. DON'T sign any exclusives with him. :-) He has what seems to me to be an odd approach to marketing. An approach that doesn't include advertising. He seems to prefer direct mail, which is great for targeted recipients but to cold-call an unknown product by direct mail? Wierd. Who knows, maybe he's a genius. The fellow from Compo that came to the Vancouver show said System Solutions is a really good company and that I was lucky to be dealing with them. He also said they're pretty much restricted to the british market and I was cautioned against believing otherwise. I have an unfounded queasy feeling about Roger. Get everything in writing. (And tell him I said hello. Seriously.) ..Todd ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 491 Fri Aug 09, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:07 EDT System Solutions (Roger Davies, et al) is handling our software in the UK. He's definitely a bit pushy but I've found that it's easiest to just agree to at least consider what he's asking for and then just forget about the more outlandish things (he'll drop them) like sending image files of all your logos, etc. As far as advertising, he never said that he wouldn't advertise. We've already been through a British relationship where they didn't advertise...it didn't work. I haven't actually seen any ads for our stuff in ST World or ST User, but many people have told us they've read about their carrying our products in ST Format. They've also been placing review products out there and I believe at least one review is already out. As for exclusives, we've verbally (and FAXually) agreed to be exclusive with Systems Solutions. I don't know who else I'd sell to over there anyway. All other roads I explored have dead-ended. I've pretty much given up on expecting too much from the British market. They seem to be heavily concentrated on games, plus NeoDesk is already extremely popular over there so it's difficult for us to break in. There's also a lot of piracy there. In 1989, CodeHead Software was voted the second best software company (right behind Hi-Soft) by ST World readers. Since we had only sold 300 pieces (total of all products) over there, something sounds a bit fishy. I read this as "we love CodeHead Software, because we can pirate it so easily". John ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 492 Fri Aug 09, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 04:05 EDT Todd & John: Thanks for the information. Roger Davies claims that his company is affiliated or partner with a Dutch company called Trade-It and Systems Solutions handles the English speaking market while Trade-It handles the rest of the European market. Do you guys have any experience with Trade-It? While we are on the same subject. Anyone familiar with Omikron Soft & Hardware in Germany? Paul Wu ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 493 Fri Aug 09, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 04:16 EDT Paul, Omikron has been recommended to me by several people and I have asked them to chat with me in Duesseldorf. I have their BASIC, and it's a fine product. It's the "official" BASIC for the ST in some European countries. ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 494 Fri Aug 09, 1991 CHERRY.FONTS at 23:19 EDT Isn't Trade-It the young fellows publishing Avante Vector in Europe? Extremely unfortunate name for a software company. I'd have called it BUY-IT or DON'T- TRADE-IT. <chuckle> Yes, Roger is pushy. He wants to copy-protect my software, rename my files, redesign my packages, bundle the fonts with somebody else's bloody clipart utilities.. I'm surprised he hasn't asked me to change the name of my company. ..Todd ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 495 Sat Aug 10, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 00:31 EDT ToddFonts, yeah, that'd be better ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 496 Sat Aug 10, 1991 WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] at 03:04 EDT Todd, How do you copy-protect fonts? ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 497 Sat Aug 10, 1991 CHERRY.FONTS at 21:23 EDT Jim, Don't you believe that TODD is synonymous with CHERRY? :-) BTW: I got a registration card back from a lady named C heri Ferarri from Pacifica California. Kinda starts the blood flowing doesn't it? Paul, There is a way to sort-of copy-protect Calamus fonts. Just ask the folks at Compugraphic. ..Cherry (honest!) :-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 7 Message 498 Sun Aug 11, 1991 MINDOVERMIDI at 20:40 EDT Todd - but what does it all *MEAN*? ------------ REPly ? ************ Topic 9 Mon Oct 22, 1990 ISD [Nathan] (Forwarded) Sub: Confidentiality I have taken this opportunity to start a new topic to discuss a very important subject to us all, the complete confidentiality of category 70. 520 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 75, Topic 9 Message 520 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:21 EDT THis could get nasty.... ------------ REPly ? ************ Topic 10 Mon Oct 01, 1990 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] (Forwarded) Sub: Technical Discussions Please place Technical Discussions Here! 639 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 625 Tue Jul 30, 1991 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:23 EDT Nor will you want it to be..........we hope. ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 626 Wed Jul 31, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:45 EDT Tyson, You're lucky your son was a Gemini. Otherwise he might have been a Neodesk or a HotWire. <grin> John ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 627 Wed Jul 31, 1991 T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 22:19 EDT I checked the astrological charts for the NeoDesk and Hotwire. Those signs are fated for prosperity and fulfillment. But beware of clashes with Pulleytarians whose orbit crosses the GEnie constellation! Tyson @ Horrorscopes Inc. (gee was that would make a great name for a hack-em- up movie...) ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 628 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 01:19 EDT ;-) It's all clear now. ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 629 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:41 EDT Tyson, In LA, there's a newsprint-type magazine called the LA Weekly. It's quite progressive and a bit outrageous. They have a regular column called the "Rocky Horroscope" so you were not the first to think of the term. Sorry. <grin> John ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 630 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:47 EDT Oops...that should have read "Rocky Horrorscope". ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 631 Thu Aug 01, 1991 DOUBLE-CLICK at 21:20 EDT Hey, I just thought of a signature for the IAAD that I wanted to get everyone's comments on. I was thinking about using it... __/\__ Mike \ / Circumsizing Vederman /_ _\ the Atari Community \/ Any comments? ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 633 Thu Aug 01, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:38 EDT What a character, this guy! Every developer's association oughtta have the benefits of a resident moil. ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 634 Thu Aug 01, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 21:45 EDT HIIIIYA!! ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 635 Thu Aug 01, 1991 T.GILL7 [GILLT] at 21:52 EDT That's OK, "Someone thought of it already..." will probably be envraged on my tombstone! Rocky Horrorscope <grin> I like it. Tys ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 636 Thu Aug 01, 1991 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 23:45 EDT Oops? Damn potholes!!!!.....Sorry Joshua, don't worry, it'll grow back. Not ;-) ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 637 Fri Aug 02, 1991 CRAIG.S.THOM at 19:13 EDT argh ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 638 Tue Aug 06, 1991 C.WALTERS1 [Chet] at 07:28 EDT How's about ..... ____________________ / circumventing \ / the Atari \ / community \ \ / /\ \/ [ ] ------------ Category 75, Topic 10 Message 639 Tue Aug 06, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:59 EDT Chet, ;-) ------------ REPly ? ************ Topic 11 Mon Aug 20, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] (Forwarded) Sub: IAAD Business I've been delegated the authority to set up a general meeting of the membership of the IAAD. Here's the place to discuss timing and agenda suggestions. 74 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 75, Topic 11 Message 68 Thu Aug 01, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:00 EDT The following people currently have legitimate access to this Category: ICDINC DAVESMALL CRAIG.S.THOM NEVIN-S GRIBNIF [Dan] HISOFT DATAQUE.1 [Chuck] ISD [Nathan] DOUG.W JEFF.W [RTC Sysop] C.HARVEY C.F.JOHNSON [CodeHead] D.S.HARRISON [Doug] C.DAYMON J.PIERSTORFF [J.PIERSTORFF] GENEXRX [Gene] H.MURPHY [M.S. Design] JB.DAVIS [Brad@DreamPk] STEVE-B BPENNER JLS [John STanley] ESTEEM [Tom Nielsen] D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] C.STANFORD B.LUNESKI1 [DBII] B.NOONAN S.WHITNEY [SteveWhitney] N.WEINRESS CHERRY.FONTS P.HELLINGER [helli] C.WALTERS1 [Chet] G.RICHARDSO1 [George] W.BUCKHOLDT K.SCHUMACHE1 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] R.SKRALY [Soft-Aware] D.BECKEMEYER [David @ BDT] L.SEILER A.RIDLEY1 DOUBLE-CLICK R.TURNER10 J.CRASWELL M.TURCSANYI [Melinda] J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] E.ROSENQUIST [Eric@Strata] JMGSOFT [George @ JMG] C.WALNUM1 [CLAY] W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob] T.GILL7 [GILLT] J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] ISD2 [David] WORDFLAIR [Lauren] MINDOVERMIDI WUZTEK.OPI [Paul Wu] P.COMEAU1 [Phil Comeau] D.THOMPSON66 [David @ JMG] DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] ------------

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